PilotMikeTx wrote:I'm interested in your plan on using Oratex on your certified aircraft. Have you talked to your FSDO about a field approval yet? Hopefully the STC will be forthcoming. Have you noticed if the 6000 is less transparent than the 600? I know you wouldn't need 6000 for the weight on a 140, but I don't like the see-through look that I've seen on other planes, at least not on a 140. I am going to soon ask my dad if I can borrow his 140 that I learned to fly in and restore it.

For the oratex 6000, I know a few 120's and 140's have been able to get field approvals for it and I have copies of their 337's. Considering I have at least 5 (that I know of) coats of paint on an older ceconite covering job, the weight savings will actually be quite large. Even on a light ceconite job, the savings would be almost 20 lbs, so with my heavy ceconite wings, I'm expecting maybe 25-30 lbs. I haven't seen it in person yet, so I don't know how translucent it will be, but from photos I've seen of the silver oratex 6000, it doesn't look very transparent. Good luck with your restore job, looking forward to seeing pictures!

PilotMikeTx wrote:I'm interested in your plan on using Oratex on your certified aircraft. Have you talked to your FSDO about a field approval yet? Hopefully the STC will be forthcoming. Have you noticed if the 6000 is less transparent than the 600? I know you wouldn't need 6000 for the weight on a 140, but I don't like the see-through look that I've seen on other planes, at least not on a 140. I am going to soon ask my dad if I can borrow his 140 that I learned to fly in and restore it.

The currently approved 6000 is still fairly transparent. At least the white stuff is. They have a new one with a bit 9f a backing on it that is much less transparent and they re working on the approval for it right now. Will be interesting to see how much heavier it is...

For me at least, I don't mind the transparency. Oratex plus some VGs should be fun!

Good progress to report today. Managed to get a couple hours in after work and in that time, I replaced the crankshaft oil seal (yay for no more oil on my windshield!) and installed the Garmin G5 EFIS. Im happy to report the G5 passed the smoke test and didnt blow up. Looks like i actually learned something from electronics technician school in the navy! Cant wait to give a flight report on the G5, but i have to wait 24 hours for the sealant on the crank seal to cure before i run the engine. And for those who will ask, yes i know the G5 is in perhaps one of the worst places to put it, but thats where the open hole was... I am looking into options to re-do the entire panel to make it look better and function much nicer. Ziptied and cleaned up the ratsnest of wires after the picture was taken


G5 installed where the VOR/LOC indicator used to be


The basic VFR panel i would like to install in the 140. Magnetic Compass will be on the windshield

I like the panel idea. Very clean.
If you're planning to start fresh like that, look into the EI CGR-30 engine instrument. It replaces all your primary engine gauges in a very nice single 3 1/8th hole.
For VFR, The VSI is not needed. Could you fit Airspeed, G5, Altimeter across the top where the G5 is now?
How far of a reach is it over to the right side in a 140 to change radio frequencies or squawk codes? In a 170, it's a real pain to lean over. I wonder if there is enough room to center mount them.

Just thinking out loud before my morning coffee so, feel free to ignore

Bagarre, I like your idea! Unfortunately, i don't have it in the budget at the moment to spend 5000 on an engine monitor as much as I'd love one. I would probably put that money into a newer modern radio and ADS-B compliant transponder first. The plan was to make the panel an overlay of the current panel in order to not affect the primary structure, so whenever I get new instruments, it's just a matter of making a new panel blank and swapping out the instruments. Shouldn't be a big deal to upgrade down the line! The reason I put the airspeed and altimeter below the yoke hole is just because of how limited space is on the top. It may all fit, but id have to measure to be sure. The transponder is already on the right side and hasn't been an issue yet. The center mount probably won't work since the control column is the "T" style and I wouldn't have the clearance. Could I swap it for a Cessna 150 "Y" control column? Yeah probably, but I'm not trying to get that deep. Trying to keep it a flyable project as much as possible.

It can quickly turn into a can of worms, that's for sure.

In my case, I didn't have any engine instruments to start with and needed Manifold, fuel level and pressure so $3k for a CGR-30 made sense but it's a lot of coin if you don't need everything it does.

Do you have the old piano keys in yours?

The piano keys were replaced with toggle switched sometime years ago. Probably gonna replace those with standard white Cessna switches, or may just keep the toggles, who knows. The original wiring from the piano key switches is still there though. The entire electrical system could use a fresh set of wires

Just an idea here. There is some nice white circuit breaker switches available. Would save you from putting switches and CBs in separately and cleans things up.

jlacharite wrote:
Side note: I know this topic has been beaten up a bit, but what is the best way to remove that awful brown interior adhesive used by Cessna? MEK sounds like itll do the job with a plastic scraper, but I was hoping to avoid the fumes....

Xylene... Best adhesive remover in my experience. Soak a rag and put it over the area for a few minutes to let the fumes do most of the work. Keep it wet and use a plastic or phenolic scraper. Best of luck!

A1Skinner wrote:Just an idea here. There is some nice white circuit breaker switches available. Would save you from putting switches and CBs in separately and cleans things up.

I like the sound of that, but are they approved for certified aircraft? Also, I don't have much that really requires breakers, so I'm not really worried one way or the other. Once the panel is cleaned up, I'll have a ton of real estate to play with.

jlacharite wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:Just an idea here. There is some nice white circuit breaker switches available. Would save you from putting switches and CBs in separately and cleans things up.

I like the sound of that, but are they approved for certified aircraft? Also, I don't have much that really requires breakers, so I'm not really worried one way or the other. Once the panel is cleaned up, I'll have a ton of real estate to play with.

I dont know why they wouldn't be. Made by Tyco. I'd like to use them in my 206 to replace things such as light switches that require a cb and switch. I think it would things up nicely.
Here's a link: http://m.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpa ... ey=1998755

Those look nice! Certified or not, since I have an old plane, I don't need TSO so I should still be good (?)

jlacharite wrote:Those look nice! Certified or not, since I have an old plane, I don't need TSO so I should still be good (?)

I think so. I've never seen a switch or cb that is certified. Been wrong before though!

Circuit breakers are Standard Parts just like AN switches and other such components and fall under the same guidelines (don't use a $2.00 Chinese made unmarked look alike switch off of Amazon. Make sure it's an AN or MS switch of an appropriate type from a reputable source... yada yada yada)

Some of the switch/breaker combos are not intended for regular use as a switch tho. That would be something I'd make sure of with these so you're not dinged for improper use.
But if they are rated for use as a switch and breaker, I think it's a great idea.

Bagarre wrote:Circuit breakers are Standard Parts just like AN switches and other such components and fall under the same guidelines (don't use a $2.00 Chinese made unmarked look alike switch off of Amazon. Make sure it's an AN or MS switch of an appropriate type from a reputable source... yada yada yada)

Some of the switch/breaker combos are not intended for regular use as a switch tho. That would be something I'd make sure of with these so you're not dinged for improper use.
But if they are rated for use as a switch and breaker, I think it's a great idea.

Great info Baggare. Thanks.
How does one know if its AN or MS? I use klixon and Tyco cbs for replacements quite a bit, but never seen an AN# on them.

That was just an example of an accepted standard for a switch, bolt or other standard parts.

I didnt mean to say that a circuit breaker would have an AN or MS part number.

But, looking at Aircraft Spruce, Klixon breakers seem to have an MS number
A KLIXON 7274-11-7.5 is listed as MS22073-7 1/2

Learn something new every day.

[quote="Bagarre"]That was just an example of an accepted standard for a switch, bolt or other standard parts.

I didnt mean to say that a circuit breaker would have an AN or MS part number.

But, looking at Aircraft Spruce, Klixon breakers seem to have an MS number
A KLIXON 7274-11-7.5 is listed as MS22073-7 1/2

Learn something new every very interesting. The 7277 dont have a MS though. The tyco's dont either, and I use more of them then klixon. Klixons dont fit a cessna buss bar very well...

Before you go too crazy with cutting up the panel, realize that the panel is structural in the C120/140. It's a shearplane that keep the forward door pillars form moving about too much. Try rocking your wings while feeling for motion between the panel and the door pillar on each end of the panel...and watching for motion in the windshield. So, if you do get that far into it, plan for some sheetmetal work to not loose that strength. Also a good time to check for doorpost cracks.

And are you sure you had piano switches? That looks like a '46 140 panel, which I believe simply had toggles (plus glove boxes). In '47 the panel started looking like a 170, with a single row of instruments across the top, a whole lot of art-deco stuff, and piano keys (like a 170).

And I feel your pain on where your EFIS is....I had to put mine on the far right side of the panel...it was the only hole that would work (Grand Rapids Mini-GA).

Fiddler, i understand the panel is structural. I was going to leave the panel sheet metal as-is, and essentially create a new panel overlay for it solid riveted to the existing panel essentially acting as a doubler for it. Best of both worlds. Stiffer panel as well as modern instrumentation. Youre correct, the 140 is a '46. I recall somewhere the previous owner saying he removed the piano switches and installed the toggles, but i could be wrong. Either way, i dont intend on going back to those. Thanks for the advice, im sure ill be reaching out to you for more as the project continues, as well as when i begin to plan crossing the rockies for the flight home with it.