Had a close call yesterday.
Passenger and I were cruising along out of DLO westbound, 30 minutes into a 45 minute flight. Cruising at 6500, (correct altitude for direction of flight) I hear my passenger say something (clearly distraught) I glance over and see a skywagon go right over the top of me, inside of 50 feet! If we were at the same altitude, his spinner would have basically Impacted my door at about the 10/11 o'clock position. I like to think of myself as someone who is pretty aware, and who is constantly scanning the area but this was just one of those moments I was looking the other way. When the plane went by, it happened so fast that there was nothing I could have done. My initial thoughts were, whoa! That was close, too close! After calming my passenger down, I started to wonder what went wrong, I started to feel like I was somewhere I shouldn't have been. I always make sure I have the most current altimeter setting, I'm good about maintaining altitude. I'm pretty sure the plane never saw me. I'm just glad it turned out the way it did. Funny thing is, I kind of had a delayed emotional response to it all, it kind of hit me when I was entering a left downwind at our intended destination, I started to have the "what the hell just happened" feeling, and it really kinda shook me up. Needless to say, we landed had lunch and felt better about things. I feel like it's really a good learning experience for me and it will definitely keep me looking out the window even more than I already do. I don't necessarily think the other person was wrong, all I can come up with was maybe he was descending from a higher altitude.

I've had a couple of those myself, in places where I thought I was alone in the sky for miles. Very frightening, and yes, it could happen to me. I'm buying into the ADS-B solution, but if will be a very long time before we can rely on everyone buying in. Vigilence, technology, and a bit of luck. That's all we have.

Had it happen, not 50ft.. more like 100-150ft but it still gets your attention nicely

I had the tower line me up with a c130 once on final for a cross wind runway. I was in the downwind for another runway. I was in a flight design at the time. I radio'd back that I would veer west a little and give him some room. I'm glad I did that, it was pretty close. I'm not upset with the tower either just to be clear, just one of those things that ended up being closer than was expected.

It's a big open sky yet somehow I pass by other aircraft fairly close more often than one would think.

Thankfully it was just a close call for you guys

Glad it turned out ok Bdiazair.

My close call was back in the early 80's while I was flying trail in a two plane skydiving load. I won't go into all the specifics but I rolled out of a nose high climbing turn and had a Metroliner pass underneath me. The jumpmaster and I just about crapped ourselves. We both estimated the clearance between aircraft somewhere in the area of 20-25 feet .

I'm potentially going to feel the pain of paying for ADS-B out in two airplanes and were finding out the ADS-B equipment doesn't much like the acro environment. I guess I can begrudgingly admit ADS-B might be beneficial.

Rich

I know a guy with ADS-B in/out in his airplane, it seems like he spends an inordinate amount of time looking at the screen. Since the ADS-B in only picks up transpondered or ADS-B out aircraft, I really hope a little old non-electric (and ADS-B exempt) Champ or T-Craft doesn't ruin his day.

As a guy who is flying the non-electric ADS-B exempt Taylorcraft, I'm hoping the guy who is staring at his screens does not ruin MY day. I probably will not have enough time to get out of his way.

Cam Tom 12, or any recent scout pilot, would have more recent information on visual reconnaissance technique, but a sneaky blind spot is straight ahead when we don't move our head. He was staying in the same place on your windscreen. You were staying in the same place on his windscreen. You were not moving your head. He was not moving his head. Only your passenger was getting valuable peripheral vision. With that little bit of extra angle on him, he many have picked up the motion sooner.

An unsettling call I heard yesterday-
Center: "Aircraft 123, you've got traffic at your...he's at your...Aircraft 123 make a right turn now!"

I have ADS-B in and out in the Husky and it is absolutely amazing. It is especially amazing when flying with another aircraft with ADS-B in and out when out in the back country beyond radar services. Before ADS-B, trying to find another fellow aircraft when two-shipping it around somewhere can be challenging. Now you know where each other are more easily.

The 185 does not have ADS-B yet and I really miss it.

Nothing will replace looking outside, but if I were to compare a world with no traffic technology (see and avoid only) with a world with universal traffic technology (all aircraft are ADS-B equipped), I would imagine that there would be fewer close calls in the ADS-B world. I personally would rather fly in an environment where our see and avoid technique is enhanced by technology. I had a close call a few years back and it wasn't fun. It haunts me actually. Were my eyes outside? Yes. I really encourage pilots to consider getting ADS-B out.

Anybody who has done a lot of flying around the US has likely had a few "near hits". Once I was flying a Lancair on downwind for runway 29 at Truckee and on a head on collision course about a hundred yards out appears a Bonanza just passing through. I dove aggressively to the right to avoid it. My passengers will not forget that one as we all experienced slightly negative Gs. I queried the Bo on CTAF to no avail. They never saw us I'm sure.

We have a finite amount of attention units available in any situation. Traffic scanning is only one of numerous tasks that a pilot must perform while aviating, navigating and communicating. The expanse of the three space grid results in a fairly low probability that two airships will converge on exactly the same point in space at the same time, but the possibility always exists.

The frequencies have been more congested recently than I can recall them being for at least the last eight years, which is great, but the likelihood of a midair goes up exponentially with more traffic. The best strategy for dealing with this risk is to get ahead of the work load as much as possible as you approach a hot spot so you can dedicate all of your attention units to scanning for other traffic, providing position reports and flying the plane.

Been there, done that, on the close call. Glad yours was just a scare and not worse, Bd. A few years ago, I was on a left downwind for what was then 9 at Greeley, when a Skylane shooting a practice ILS approach to 34 chose to go missed at exactly TPA, 800' AGL. He passed so close in front of me that I could see the rivets in the side of the Skylane, maybe 20-25' at most. I had announced my positions on the 45 to downwind and again on downwind; he had last announced his position at BUFFS (the outer marker) outbound, before commencing his procedure turn and did not announce either procedure turn inbound or BUFFS inbound. He was not running landing lights; I was. I was at the correct TPA, so that if he'd done a proper missed nearer to DA/DH, he would have been well below me. To say I was shaken is inadequate.

Now that I have ADS-B In and Out, I'm hearing more traffic announced that I still don't see, even when I see it on the iPad. Either the "Big Sky" is getting smaller, or it's always been this way and I just didn't see it, even using proper scanning techniques. The ones I do see more often are well lit, often with flashing landing lights, strobes, etc.

We can reduce the problems associated with "see and avoid" by lighting up our airplanes as much as possible to be seen, and by using proper scanning techniques to see others. We can enhance "see and avoid" with ADS-B Out installations. For myself, my airplane has Pulselites for both the landing and taxi lights, which I turn on within about 10 miles of any airport traffic area and whenever ATC calls traffic, plus I always run my strobes, both wingtip and tail (the tail strobe comes on with the master). I now have ADS-B Out, which of course comes on with the avionics master.

Fortunately, the risks of mid-airs are pretty small, statistically speaking, compared to LOC incidents associated with landing and taking off. But anything we as pilots and owners can do to minimize all of the risks, even the smaller ones, should be done.

Cary

Speaking of radio calls, we have a guy at my airport who apparently has decided to abandon radio use. Don't know about when he's in his own C182, but if he's in the local museum's C140 or the local rental C150's with a student, he maintains strict radio silence. He's managed to cut off airplanes on final, turn onto downwind slow in front of faster airplanes, make right traffic for 9 when everybody else was left traffic for 27, etc. When asked if the radio is inop, he immediately develops an attitude and states "we practice see and avoid! You don't to have a radio!!" etc. Everybody screws up once in a while but this guy has been making a practice of it. Had a couple other close calls at the airport recently involving others, which could have been avoided if proper radio use had been practiced. I can see norad if you're gonna take off and go somewhere, but if you're gonna stay in the traffic pattern of a busy airport for an hour's worth of T&G's on a regular basis IMHO you need to at least have a handheld (and use it!).

OK, rant over.

hotrod180 wrote:Speaking of radio calls, we have a guy at my airport who apparently has decided to abandon radio use. Don't know about when he's in his own C182, but if he's in the local museum's C140 or the local rental C150's with a student, he maintains strict radio silence. He's managed to cut off airplanes on final, turn onto downwind slow in front of faster airplanes, make right traffic for 9 when everybody else was left traffic for 27, etc. When asked if the radio is inop, he immediately develops an attitude and states "we practice see and avoid! You don't to have a radio!!" etc. Everybody screws up once in a while but this guy has been making a practice of it. Had a couple other close calls at the airport recently involving others, which could have been avoided if proper radio use had been practiced. I can see norad if you're gonna take off and go somewhere, but if you're gonna stay in the traffic pattern of a busy airport for an hour's worth of T&G's on a regular basis IMHO you need to at least have a handheld (and use it!).

OK, rant over.

Fair rant.

He's right that a radio isn't required, but he's obviously wrong if he thinks that gives him carte blanche to fly as if no one else is out there. Especially if he's inculcating that sort of perspective of piloting to students, he's really wrong (I was going to say "dead wrong", but that may come later). In any event, if he's a consistently unsafe pilot and instructor, you and others should be reporting him. First place: your local FAA Safety Advisor. Second place (if contacting the SA doesn't accomplish anything), an Inspector at your district FSDO.

I think I recited a somewhat similar situation at my home drome, a year or so ago. Local airline pilot/CFI was flying with his student in his 172, which he has leased to the local community college flight program. I was in a closed pattern, doing stop and goes, he was using 4-500' AGL as his TPA (officially it's 800' AGL) and turning onto crosswind way early. On one occasion that allowed him to cut in front of me, but the next couple of circuits he landed right behind me. When I decided to stop for the day, as I taxied off I saw that he had landed so close behind me that he was less than 100' behind me as I made the 110 degree turn onto the angled taxiway. As I was putting my airplane into my hangar, I saw him go around again, pulling up into a near stall before dropping the nose and making the early left turn onto crosswind, again using a very low TPA.

This time, he made a full stop and taxied off, apparently for a potty stop. So I drove to where his student sat with the airplane's engine idling, and when he came out of the building, he walked over to my car and asked what I needed. I told him that it was my opinion that his flying, especially with a student aboard, was unsafe. At first he had attitude: "I have 15,000 hours, and I can guarantee that what we were doing wasn't unsafe." I told him that I didn't intend to argue the point, but "I've been known to report unsafe flying." Suddenly his attitude changed, he became very apologetic, and said that he wouldn't do it again.

The next day, however, I did report all of the situation to the local FAA SA, who just happens to be my regular CFII. He said that he would keep an eye on things to see if it happened again. I have no idea whether anything more was done, but I haven't observed that particular airplane being flown unsafely since then.

It is our duty, I think, not only to ourselves and others but to GA in general, to do what we can to minimize the risk of accidents by self-policing, and then if necessary reporting regularly unsafe flying practices. If we don't or can't police ourselves, someone else has to do it for us, before someone gets hurt or worse. I have always taken that duty seriously, although in some 43+ years of flying, I've only felt it necessary to actually report directly to the FAA perhaps 2 or 3 times.

Cary

I have the half ass ADS-B I plan on getting the real thing when the price comes down. With the Stratus box and my ForeFlight it's amazing what you can see out there.

As much as we all love Foreflight, I fear a lot of guys are spending more time fiddling with their Ipad than looking outside. Not to mention talking but not listening on CTAF. Learning to mentally plot and track traffic you hear over the radio takes practice and attention. Unfortunately, we have a lot of things competing for our attention.

A number of close calls and accidents have been caused by the single tree in an otherwise pure crop field, the tree that shouldn't be there. We need to scan all around us continuously for the airplane that should not be there. We need to believe, even without radio confirmation, that he is out there. We need to scan (move our head) with intent to see him. If him not being there bothers us more that him being there, we have the better orientation.

elgoatropo wrote:... Not to mention talking but not listening on CTAF. Learning to mentally plot and track traffic you hear over the radio takes practice and attention....

I had a recent experience with a student pilot training flight at a nearby airport. I listened to the CTAF from several miles out, made not one but two appropriate calls while still well west of the airport, but the student flight doing touch-n-goes turned downwind at just the wrong time as to conflict with my entering the downwind. I advised that I was doing a RH 360 for spacing, and asked the student flight if he had me in sight.
He answered back that he did not, and sounded very surprised that anyone else was in the pattern area, in spite of my two previous calls. Hopefully his instructor is teaching situational awareness, so that another airplane showing up in the area (after two radio calls) won't be such a surprise in the future.

His instructor may have been yammering the whole time...there are a couple instructors that regularly make me miss radio calls because they talk constantly when we are in controlled airspace...

And the instructor or student may have turned the radio down to facilitate communication in the cockpit, then not noticed that they had turned it down too far...


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The hemispheric rule is only above 3,000 AGL, not climbing, not descending, not turning.

Good see and avoid thinking:

He is out there.
He has no electrical devices or radio.
He is not using hemispheric rule.
He is not looking for me.