hotrod180 wrote:

soyAnarchisto wrote:....It's good news that they will offer a SBS-J16 size change.....

I think that's pretty smart of them.
They will likely sell a lot of batteries to people looking to lighten up their odyssey-equipped airplane by close to 10 pounds.
Maybe even me.

Saving 10 pounds would be nice. They would sell alot of batteries for this alone. The power difference between the 2 is hardly comparable. Don't get me wrong, I like the Odessey and it does a fine job. But on a cold day, she struggles to get my 550 to turn. If it doesn't catch on the first attempt, the second attempt is going to be getting weak, 3rd or 4th attempt is hail mary time. I'm betting you'd have a strong 5 or 6 attempts with an Earth-X. It's hard to imagine getting that much more power out of a lighter battery but you really do. I've only used 1 Earth X, and the problem I had was the battery computer throwing a fault code. Wiring the Earth-X in isn't as simple either as you have to wire a warning light to the panel or wire into the EFIS.

185er wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:

soyAnarchisto wrote:....It's good news that they will offer a SBS-J16 size change.....

I think that's pretty smart of them.
They will likely sell a lot of batteries to people looking to lighten up their odyssey-equipped airplane by close to 10 pounds.
Maybe even me.

Saving 10 pounds would be nice. They would sell alot of batteries for this alone. The power difference between the 2 is hardly comparable. Don't get me wrong, I like the Odessey and it does a fine job. But on a cold day, she struggles to get my 550 to turn. If it doesn't catch on the first attempt, the second attempt is going to be getting weak, 3rd or 4th attempt is hail mary time. I'm betting you'd have a strong 5 or 6 attempts with an Earth-X. It's hard to imagine getting that much more power out of a lighter battery but you really do. I've only used 1 Earth X, and the problem I had was the battery computer throwing a fault code. Wiring the Earth-X in isn't as simple either as you have to wire a warning light to the panel or wire into the EFIS.

Cranking a big six cylinder Continental is a lot to ask of a tiny battery like an Odyssey. No way I’d rely on one for that installation.

But, does the Earth X really have that much more cold cranking amps than an Odyssey?

MTV

I’ll be giving this a hard look, 10 lbs is significant enough to justify the cost I think

mtv wrote:Cranking a big six cylinder Continental is a lot to ask of a tiny battery like an Odyssey. No way I’d rely on one for that installation.

I relied on one (the odyssey) for an O-520 for a number of years and came to the conclusion that it was just another lead acid battery, and not a very powerful one to boot. The magic was in the relocating, which yields less heavy cable, and a shorter more efficient run. I'd hate to rely on one somewhere cold.
The little blue thing really zings things along well, and is magic in comparison with respect to technology, weight and power.

mtv wrote:But, does the Earth X really have that much more cold cranking amps than an Odyssey?

MTV

More than double, per the manufacturers ;

PC680 - 170 CCA
ETX 900-TSO - 390 CCA

Having said that, the PC680's aren't bad, they're just not anything special. Interstate, and several others make clones that are as good if not better. They're a simple lead acid battery. One that hundreds of turbine, yes you read that right turbine engines (far more demanding than a big six conti) rely on for starting duties every day.

Take care, Rob

Also, LIFePo4 batteries have another distinct advantage over lead acid in that they retain a much higher useful charge capacity. Lead acid batteries die off gradually and slowly - and usually quit completely at about 50%. Whereas the Lithium iron (not ion) batteries will deliver the same charge much deeper into it's discharge profile. A fancy way of saying that you can use far more electrons in the same package. Even though it's double the CCAs, in reality it's more like 4X.

And the fault indicator - that's pulling 1 wire into the panel. I really don't think that is a big deal as it can come in with the bundle of wires for your engine monitor. I'm trying to figure out if the Garmin GI275 can take in a generic fault signal through one of their GPIO ports so you don't have to put another blinky annunciator in your panel. Even so it's just a diode light. Pretty easy.

And at 4 pounds. I might even carry a spare battery to power the digicals in camp and as a backup for the cold starts. Well, I've already been doing that by carrying an EarthX around for almost 10 years. I'd now like to plug one on the warm side of the firewall.

The guys over on supercub.org have almost convinced me I don't even need the STC and that it's a minor alteration. Now if that just works with my IA....

The other piece of magic benefit (and to some extent a problem) is heat. Batteries don't like to put out juice when they are cold soaked. So moving them to the firewall - presumably also under a blanket and with the benefit of pre-heating - aids in making that juice available for the starter. Nothing worse than the 20 feet of copper to a cold soaked battery in the rear of a plane as far as I'm concerned.

Conversely now you need to be careful with hear in the engine bay. The battery box is vented and stays cool while you are flying - but when you shut down and throw the engine cover on her. Well now you are boiling that battree. The EarthX box has a version with thermal protection that will stave off all that heat from the exhaust till the hole thing cools down a little. Battery longevity is extended when it's kept with it's normal and expected operating range. You don't get that with the Atlee Dodge box AFAIK.

Rob wrote:

mtv wrote:Cranking a big six cylinder Continental is a lot to ask of a tiny battery like an Odyssey. No way I’d rely on one for that installation.

I relied on one (the odyssey) for an O-520 for a number of years and came to the conclusion that it was just another lead acid battery, and not a very powerful one to boot. The magic was in the relocating, which yields less heavy cable, and a shorter more efficient run. I'd hate to rely on one somewhere cold.

mtv wrote:But, does the Earth X really have that much more cold cranking amps than an Odyssey?

MTV

One odd thing I have noticed with the blue box, is if I have neglected my airplane for a longer time than should be allowed, and for whatever reason the first attempt does seem sluggish, turning the strobes navs, and maybe even the landing lights on for a few seconds before another go at it seems to wake the thing up and all is normal again? I have no idea what is going on there, I am electron challenged. Do these things fall asleep and need a wake up to get things flowing if left to themselves for too long?

edit... just read your post above (it came in while I was typing this) and I can't remember if the couple times I've had to 'wake up' the battery were cold mornings or? Guess I'll watch for that.

Take care, Rob

That's the bigger 900 earthX at 5.4#. The 680 is 4.1lbs and the 480C (compact) is 3.9lbs.

Yes, very significant.

pipeliner wrote:Odyssey SBS-J16 is 14.8# and the Earth-X is 5.4#. Pretty significant.

Ross

mtv wrote:

185er wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:

soyAnarchisto wrote:....It's good news that they will offer a SBS-J16 size change.....

I think that's pretty smart of them.
They will likely sell a lot of batteries to people looking to lighten up their odyssey-equipped airplane by close to 10 pounds.
Maybe even me.

Saving 10 pounds would be nice. They would sell alot of batteries for this alone. The power difference between the 2 is hardly comparable. Don't get me wrong, I like the Odessey and it does a fine job. But on a cold day, she struggles to get my 550 to turn. If it doesn't catch on the first attempt, the second attempt is going to be getting weak, 3rd or 4th attempt is hail mary time. I'm betting you'd have a strong 5 or 6 attempts with an Earth-X. It's hard to imagine getting that much more power out of a lighter battery but you really do. I've only used 1 Earth X, and the problem I had was the battery computer throwing a fault code. Wiring the Earth-X in isn't as simple either as you have to wire a warning light to the panel or wire into the EFIS.

Cranking a big six cylinder Continental is a lot to ask of a tiny battery like an Odyssey. No way I’d rely on one for that installation.

But, does the Earth X really have that much more cold cranking amps than an Odyssey?

MTV

The Earth-X has A LOT more grunt power than the Odessey. I've ran both on a high compression 360. Night and day difference. I'm going to wait till the bugs are worked out before I jump back into that world. What I have now isn't the best, but it isn't broken either.

Actually the ETX-900 12V version is 4.9lbs and provides 400 CCA. The ETX 680 is 4.1lbs and provides 320 CCA. The compact version ETX680C is 3.9lbs and also provides 320CCA.

I think the compact version is still 0.4" too big to fit in the Atlee Dodge box - so will need to replace with EarthX box or do some other finaglin'.

The dimensions of the ETX680C is:
ETX-680C 5.9 in (L) x 3.4 in (W) x 4.5 in (H)

While the dimensions of the SBS-J16 are:
7.10 x 3.00 x 6.60

soyAnarchisto wrote:That's the bigger 900 earthX at 5.4#. The 680 is 4.1lbs and the 480C (compact) is 3.9lbs.

Yes, very significant.

pipeliner wrote:Odyssey SBS-J16 is 14.8# and the Earth-X is 5.4#. Pretty significant.

Ross

soyAnarchisto wrote:Actually the ETX-900 12V version is 4.9lbs and provides 400 CCA. The ETX 680 is 4.1lbs and provides 320 CCA. The compact version ETX680C is 3.9lbs and also provides 320CCA.

I think the compact version is still 0.4" too big to fit in the Atlee Dodge box - so will need to replace with EarthX box or do some other finaglin'.

The dimensions of the ETX680C is:
ETX-680C 5.9 in (L) x 3.4 in (W) x 4.5 in (H)

While the dimensions of the SBS-J16 are:
7.10 x 3.00 x 6.60

All of the above numbers are for the Earth-X batteries for experimental aircraft. Earth-X has two batteries that are TSO'd for certified aircraft. The ETX-900-TSO is the 12 volt version (6.5" L x 3.1" W x 6.6" H and 5.4 lbs) while the 24 volt version is (6.5" L x 5.1" W x 6.6" H and 7.2 lbs).

Ross