Electronic Ignition for C180 with O-520. Pros, Cons, which brand?

Do you have a firewall mounted Odyssey battery? If yes then the surefly wont work. So then you are stuck with electro air. I prefer the surefly as it's a simpler install.

A1Skinner wrote:Do you have a firewall mounted Odyssey battery? If yes then the surefly wont work. So then you are stuck with electro air. I prefer the surefly as it's a simpler install.

Why wont Surefly work with Firewall battery?

Kurt

The STC requires a 20 AH battery (if 12V). The most common Odyssey used is 16 AH, I believe.

G44 wrote:
Why wont Surefly work with Firewall battery?

Kurt

STC reads; “The airframe must be equipped with a 12-Volt battery having a minimum capacity of 20AH or a 24-Volt battery having a minimum capacity of 8.5AH."


The problem is that the main firewall battery used, SBS J-16 have a capacity of 15AH, I believe the EarthX is also below what is required for the STC.

Ok, thanks guys for the explanation.

Kurt

After a bit of research it seems the Surefly is cheaper and simpler to install but has the battery restriction. It also doesn't alter timing and therefore performance as the Electronair unit does. Ours has the firewall battery so Electronair seems the only option. More expense but more advantage in terms of performance?

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/uncate ... ance-free/

Where is the redundancy with electronic ignition? Will the windmilling prop turning an alternator spark the plugs? This is all new to me.

contactflying wrote:Where is the redundancy with electronic ignition? Will the windmilling prop turning an alternator spark the plugs? This is all new to me.

Right now it is your mag. If they are able to certify a dual surefly install you will need a second battery.

JamieG wrote:After a bit of research it seems the Surefly is cheaper and simpler to install but has the battery restriction. It also doesn't alter timing and therefore performance as the Electronair unit does. Ours has the firewall battery so Electronair seems the only option. More expense but more advantage in terms of performance?

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/uncate ... ance-free/

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know anything about electronic ignition.... but this is copied off the Surefly website (link above):

The electronic mag can be adjusted to any engine’s base timing advance (specified on the engine data plate) by a little switching module that is accessible through a large port on the case. There is more spark energy throughout the RPM range and the dwell is adjusted automatically. Each spark plug has its own dedicated coil, virtually eliminating coil failures.

There is no impulse coupling, as the unit controls timing by manifold pressure and RPM. Below 400 RPM, the timing is set to TDC, with a longer dwell and increased voltage, ensuring cold or even fouled spark plug starts.

Doesn't that mean that it does alter timing?

My airplane should be coming out of annual in the next couple of days. Since I needed mag inspections anyway, I elected to go with the Surefly. My mechanic highly recommended them. He has installed several and likes them. My engine started easily before so I'm not sure how much better it can be for starting but we'll see. I'll report back when I get a chance. The Surefly uses Slick harnesses, which I already have, so that's a consideration too if you don't already have Slick mags.

The Surefly ‘can’ advance the timing based on manifold pressure, but that functionality isn’t approved for all types. It has some dip switches inside that allow those settings to be changed. The hope is that the AML grows and advance can be enabled. Until your model is approved, the Surefly is a direct magneto replacement, perhaps with hotter sparks, easier starts, and perhaps more reliable.

I put the electroair on my C182 and like it with some caveats.

It was a very complicated install, especially when compared to the Surefly.

Now after 150 hours or so in service it is starting to "hunt" at idle, almost like there is an intermittent ground somewhere and it's turning itself off for fractions of a second, pretty annoying. This is whilst running at idle on just the Electroair. I haven't yet contacted Electroair about this but intend to, perhaps it's something simple.

I most likely would have gone with the Surefly if it had been available at the time, just for simplicity's sake if nothing else.

All that said the engine is very smooth and makes excellent power. O-520 Pponk with Seaplanes West mount.

JamieG wrote:After a bit of research it seems the Surefly is cheaper and simpler to install but has the battery restriction. It also doesn't alter timing and therefore performance as the Electronair unit does. Ours has the firewall battery so Electronair seems the only option. More expense but more advantage in terms of performance?

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/uncate ... ance-free/

Not true.

All Cessna 180 & 185 models are approved for advanced timing.

The battery size is a problem however. When I emailed them, they weren’t sure when they’d be able to get the restriction removed, but it was on their radar.

"All Cessna 180 & 185 models are approved for advanced timing."

That's interesting. It seems to me the biggest attraction of EI is to get the variable timing. Firewall battery restrictions not withstanding. EarthX 1200 would do it.

I just contacted Surefly about the firewall battery restriction and here is what they said:

"The Cessna was certified with the 20 amp battery, so that is what is on the STC. However, if your Odyssey is installed under an STC, then we go to a stacked STC rule which makes the SureFly legal as long as your mechanic certifies there is no problem using the two STCs together. Then you are legal."

I'm no expert on STC issues, so perhaps some of the IA types on here may want to comment.

Thanks.....Ross

Halestorm wrote:I put the electroair on my C182 and like it with some caveats.

...

Now after 150 hours or so in service it is starting to "hunt" at idle, almost like there is an intermittent ground somewhere and it's turning itself off for fractions of a second, pretty annoying. This is whilst running at idle on just the Electroair. I haven't yet contacted Electroair about this but intend to, perhaps it's something simple.

...

Heard anything yet from Electroair? I'm thinking of installing an electronic ignition at my next annual. I haven't decided which brand. Manufacturer support is a key consideration.

You said you've flown 150 hours with your Electroair. How many months or years has it been on your plane?

I bought my plane with the Electronair on it
0-320. Works great. Got around 160 hours on the engine
No
Problems

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Aircraft spruce offering 15% off surefly ignitions SUREFLY15

G44 wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:Do you have a firewall mounted Odyssey battery? If yes then the surefly wont work. So then you are stuck with electro air. I prefer the surefly as it's a simpler install.

Why wont Surefly work with Firewall battery?

Kurt

It works fine, that's what I have on my plane, it's just the paperwork doesn't exist for certified aircraft.