I flew the Olympic mountains Tuesday afternoon, good and nice conditions as shown in my video in another thread.
Since engine is quite new I was always thinking of outs (more than usual).

Was wondering is it better to put in on a steep snow covered mountain or try to glide down the drainage and try to make it to flatter terrain.
I was thinking I would opt for the second choice.

Looks like the snow mountain emergency landing could be pretty safe.
The morning after my flight in the Olympics a Cessna 172 crashed on the side of the mountain, pilot walked to the top of the mountains and was rescued.

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/news/ ... aft-crash/

I am re thinking now I might choose a snowed mountain (knock on wood) than try to glide down the drainage, which at the bottom probably is a rocky river.
What do you guys think of this scenario?

Several years back there was a guy on BCP , LowNslow I think, that had an engine failure while flying in Hells Canyon. He put the plane down on a mountain side rather than in the river. I think I’d do the same if I was given the choice.

That's a great question and like most here I'm sure, when I'm in inhospitable terrain (for landing) I'm constantly scoping out landing sites.

I don't think there is an easy answer to your question as there are just too many variables, other then land where your chances (not the plane's) of survival are the greatest.

It might be in the snow, but in this instance I'd suggest this guy got really lucky, looking at the photo he landed right next to an avalanche chute, and that would be one of my biggest concerns in this particular example. In fact looking at how high on the mountain he is, and the angle, if I were a speculating guy I'd speculate he was trying to clear the mountain and ran out of "up juice".

Best would probably be a beach or sand bar, but I wouldn't go looking for one if the engine suddenly quit. If I couldn't immediately see one below me within guaranteed gliding distance I'd be looking for the shortest, softest, green bushes or treetops to land in.

Of course if that's not an option then I'm in the river, looking for a spot with the least amount of whitewater and big rocks.

Glad this pilot got out in one piece.

I never had to test this all the way to the ground as a pilot. Just one time, with a friend flying, so technically I was a pax, in the back seat of a Super Cub but over tundra when the fuel selector went FUBAR. A non-event.

But, in all the years and hours of being spring loaded of, "Where do I go?" I always planned on not leaving a known shitty I can see, for an unknown shitty I can't see. I figured I'd salvage what I could by using airspeed and ground effect to actually touch the ground as slow as humanly possible, regardless of what that ground consisted of. And, by not traveling far, have a few extra seconds to screw my head on straight and think about what I was going to do.

Gump

I like Gump's outlook, but since all mine, save one, were from 200'AGL or less, I just the once had that kind of decision to make. Zooming up from a spray run or too far for stopping down a runway toward where you remember might be best leaves only about four seconds to go full flaps and full slip around the turn to the beginning of the landing zone. Strangely, from low altitude, we will almost always be too high and too fast going into the real close stuff available.

With low powered airplanes we find ourselves in the positions Motoadve is talking about and Gump alludes to in the mountains. We should be working a ridge downwind of a valley. While very close to the ridge utilizing the most updraft air around, we generally have a lot of vertical space available down the drainage. As long as we still have engine energy available, that vertical space is very comforting and useful. Should engine or wind energy (updraft) quit, that is where we go. With engine out, however, we have to make Gump's decision and answer motoadve's question.

Like Gump I would go for the nearest survivable spot. While I have had to turn back because of loss of ridge lift, I have never completely lost engine energy in the mountains. Coming out of Santa Fe with the C-175, I had some rpm and the road at Santa Domingo Pueblo.

Barnstormer wrote:...It might be in the snow, but in this instance I'd suggest this guy got really lucky, looking at the photo he landed right next to an avalanche chute, and that would be one of my biggest concerns in this particular example. In fact looking at how high on the mountain he is, and the angle, if I were a speculating guy I'd speculate he was trying to clear the mountain and ran out of "up juice"....

This airplane is based 3 airports west of mine, running out of up-juice ias BS puts it is pretty much what the story is.
Downdrafts when approaching lee side of ridge, pushed down into the terrain, couldn't (or didn't try) turning back in time.
Even in an engine-out event, it's a pretty easy glide back down to civilization.
A lot easier to rescue someone close to town than way back in the mountains.
That's part of why I like IFR (I Follow Roads) though the mountains-- less of a crawl to help if things goes bad.
If nothing else, someone driving by will see the fireball and your carcass will be easier to locate.

A few weeks ago a couple of buddies flew into our Sierra strip, and about 15 minutes after departing two of the three came back and it was one of those "uh oh" moments. As they were over the terrain shown below, the pilot in the blue and white Zenith 750 STOL had his engine suddenly stop. Once he saw he could not make it back to the strip, he did a textbook emergency engine out landing in very rugged terrain, and walked away with scratches.

What was remarkable about this is, he just obtained his pilots license in August of last year. Another remarkable part of this is he has regularly gone with a group of us that practice engine outs at the dry lakes in our area, where the engine is actually turned off, and we try to spot land. It's a different performing airplane when the engine is actually stopped, and a totally different sound and experience, one that could unnerve a rookie or a seasoned pilot.

He shared that when his engine stopped, and he could see it was not going to start, it was second nature to look for the best spot he could "mush in", he had been on this rodeo many times. He said the quietness and performance of his new glider was nothing new due to his engine out practice, and he had a good feel of where he could actually end up, and how he would stall it into the terrain.

As it turns out, he planted it exactly where he wanted, had about a 20 ft roll out, hit a log and flipped it on his back, calmly released his harness, and told the pilots circling overhead that he was alright.

He feels that the engine out practice, and knowing the slow STOL performance of his aircraft is what saved his butt. He still doesn't know why the engine stopped, and hopefully the NTSB may be able to find those answers.

Zenithguy wrote:
He feels that the engine out practice, and knowing the slow STOL performance of his aircraft is what saved his butt. He still doesn't know why the engine stopped, and hopefully the NTSB may be able to find those answers.

That’s a heck of a job - especially with the terrain he had to work with! Glad he’s okay.

Awesome on you guys for practicing true engine outs, I've never done it before but you guys have inspired me- next time I find a big salt flat or dry lake bed- emphasis on dry.

Give your buddy a huge kudos from me. Job well done for any pilot of any experience level, all the more impressive for a fairly new pilot.

Been wanting to do that kind of training on a dry lake my self, put some sort of marking and try to land on it with the engine turned off.
Its great that you guys practiced that, it probably saved that pilot,s life.

Great topic.

I think about all options, but my default thought is to fly downhill in the hopes of finding a better place to land rather than crash on a steep slope and invite an avalanche or a short but exciting toboggan run.

Also heading downhill gives you more time to radio and look for other places to land, and maybe relight the engine.

Its also easier to be rescued from a farm than from a mountian top.

Finally, if I have to spend time waiting for days, I'd prefer a valley to a mountian.

But this is just general thinking, each circumstance is different.

I have practiced stopped prop emergency landings. A very creepy sensation.

Give your buddy a huge kudos from me. Job well done for any pilot of any experience level, all the more impressive for a fairly new pilot.

Thanks for the comments, they have been passed on to him.

And, he leaves Thursday to hopefully pick up his new aircraft. Getting right back on the horse.

I've flown for hours dead stick ridge soaring, excellent practice of course for a real deal emergency. I feel for you guys that have never flown dead stick, ain't right.....get 'er done, best thing you can do for safety. BTW, not that quiet, lots of wind noise, even at 55 mph, at least in my drafty bird.

Like anyone who flies in the mountains, I am constantly on the lookout for a suitable place to set down. As several have said, "where" is going to be determined by too many variables--not sure I want to pre-program the "where" while sitting at the laptop. I do note, however, that with some exceptions, there are an amazing number of roadways in the mountains, mostly logging roads I suppose, but with enough straight stretches for an emergency plunk down.

I remember a write-up by someone here, about stuffing his 206 onto a too-short mountain road in Idaho and sliding it into the trees, which took off the wings, but no one was hurt. I can't recall who that was, but it was soon after I joined this august group, so it's been awhile.

An acquaintance instructing in a P210 put it onto a small bare spot on top of a foothill when it literally threw a whole jug off the engine. Very little damage to the airplane, although it had to be helicoptered out. He was a very new instructor at the time, instructing the owner, who was so far over his head with that airplane that I've been told he never did receive his certificate, even after a few hundred hours of instruction by several different instructors. Fortunately for him, my acquaintance was sharper than the average pilot and had had good instruction himself from some of the best in this area.

I have 2 experiences with a stopped prop in the air. The first was intentional, at altitude and well within gliding distance of Laramie, in a rental 172, way back when, probably in 1974 or so. I was truly surprised at the amount of noise--wind, creaking aluminum--much louder than I ever would have expected. I was also surprised at the difference in glide with the prop stopped.

The second was 14 years ago when my engine threw a rod within 15 hours of when I bought my airplane in Tulsa. After the horrible clanking and vibration, I don't remember any noise until I touched down, and that was because the field wasn't totally smooth--crop stubble can make for a lot of bumps and a lot of vibration noise.

I think it's good to be thinking about how to survive a mountainous crash, but I don't think it's possible to make a decision beforehand, Like all crash landings, the best advice is always to do it slow but under control, and that's about it. Lakes, rivers, roads, trees--all too changeable to make that decision in advance.

Cary

Lots of things come into the picture with a engine stoppage. One thing in this part of the country is avoid the real green trees!! Not simple but a good place to start. When you fly or just walk around look at the color of the trees, brush, grass and ground around you. In Alaska gray is a great color (sand, shale, dry grass). Red is another good color (low ground cover may or may not be wet but usually firm). Light green grass tends to be very wet. Brown is usually rough ground under the brush. Low yellow is the alders in the fall, they will tear fabric and bend some stuff but you should walk away. The taller yellow is birch tends to be a bit firm!! Dark green is the pines. If I was high and had a gray hilltop buy me I would take it over going into a real green tree valley. Anytime you can get on or near a road building halfway safe go for it. No matter what FLY IT ALL THE WAY TO THE CRASH SITE!!
DENNY