Wow, what a great video covering an extremely important topic. I like the idea of the minimum defined maneuvering speed (1.404 Vso) line, and will add it to my ASI. I'm also going to add this entire training regime to my next BFI... Thanks for posting the link to the video.

mtv wrote:As an FYI, the speed and configuration that Piper suggests for the Super Cub is 45 mph and full flaps.

If you've ever demonstrated that, you'll realize that IF the engine were to fail in that configuration and attitude, you WILL stall.....no matter how fast your reaction time.

In my opinion, actual, no shit Vx climb in a Super Cub is a true emergency procedure, never to be "demonstrated" or practiced close to the ground.

Sad deal, this.

MTV

I'm gonna +1 this too.

I feel like it's true for a lot of airplanes out there...the degree of severity is gonna be a little different for each plane & its different wing, but...the more I fly & learn, the more I realize that Vx really is only for when the alternative is hitting trees.

This accident, among a few other recent similar ones, is why I did the 'Impossible Turn / Turnback' video in this thread: https://backcountrypilot.org/community/ ... tude-23660

I think it was pretty evident that even Vy is on the marginal side. In the energy equation kinetic adds more value than potential (specifically Potential Energy=mass x gravity x height and Kinetic Energy = .5 x mass x Velocity-squared ).

An engine failure at Vx pretty much results in a stall during the reaction time to the event. At Vy you get VERY close to the stall during the reaction time, but have a little margin. At a Cruise Climb speed you have energy to make a choice.

My nickel on the grass is to break it down into phases. Below 400' AGL you land straight ahead... period. Above 400' AGL you can make a turn, maybe as much as 90 Degrees to find a suitable spot. I think this break point could work for just about any airplane (maybe slightly lower for a light/ high lift airplane). The next decision point should be found by practicing at altitude.... your Turnback altitude. Using 1000' AGL for a heavy airplane is marginal. Watch the video, I tried the profile at 500', 700' and 1,000'.... even with 30 knots of wind pushing me back to the runway a successful return to the airport area was in doubt unless I had a high energy state.

Use Vx to clear an obstacle, use Vy sparingly (a few feet in altitude won't gain you much in the way of energy)... my nickel is to use a crusie climb speed, practice it... have a plan.

YMMV,
gunny

Gunny,

I very much appreciate your video and also Flight Chops' Dan Gryder video concerning the generally fatal problem of stalling airplanes during maneuvering flight, which includes takeoff and landing. We few who lived there, maneuvering flight, had low altitude orientation and were continuously spring loaded to the failure. Thus we poorly represent what generally is the problem.

Second, I appreciate and applaud your recognition of wind energy's influence on any low level maneuvering. That just doesn't happen much outside of crop dusting. High altitude orientation simply does not allow target, rather than heading, orientation. Few A-36 Bonanza drivers understand that the runway is a target and not just the heading depicted.

Contact

Gunny wrote:This accident, among a few other recent similar ones, is why I did the 'Impossible Turn / Turnback' video in this thread: https://backcountrypilot.org/community/ ... tude-23660

I think it was pretty evident that even Vy is on the marginal side. In the energy equation kinetic adds more value than potential (specifically Potential Energy=mass x gravity x height and Kinetic Energy = .5 x mass x Velocity-squared ).

An engine failure at Vx pretty much results in a stall during the reaction time to the event. At Vy you get VERY close to the stall during the reaction time, but have a little margin. At a Cruise Climb speed you have energy to make a choice.

My nickel on the grass is to break it down into phases. Below 400' AGL you land straight ahead... period. Above 400' AGL you can make a turn, maybe as much as 90 Degrees to find a suitable spot. I think this break point could work for just about any airplane (maybe slightly lower for a light/ high lift airplane). The next decision point should be found by practicing at altitude.... your Turnback altitude. Using 1000' AGL for a heavy airplane is marginal. Watch the video, I tried the profile at 500', 700' and 1,000'.... even with 30 knots of wind pushing me back to the runway a successful return to the airport area was in doubt unless I had a high energy state.

Use Vx to clear an obstacle, use Vy sparingly (a few feet in altitude won't gain you much in the way of energy)... my nickel is to use a crusie climb speed, practice it... have a plan.

YMMV,
gunny

I agree. I have taught for some time that Vx is in general an emergency procedure, to be used close to the ground only when absolutely necessary.

Thanks for putting your experiments out there for all.

MTV

Contact and MTV-

Thanks, I appreciate it.

gunny