I'm thinking (that happens sometimes) that why not just equip your fuel system to handle alch?
Fuel lines, gaskets, carb.floats, whatever... then you don't need to worry, just accept decreased efficiency etc.

180Marty wrote:You anti ethanol petitioners scare me a little. First, ethanol is not going away because the oil companies need it so that they can produce cheaper, poor quality, gasoline that needs ethanol's attributes. What I see happening,thanks to you folks, is ethanol plants that are owned by people like me will eventually wind up being owned by the oil companies. Then the world will be good again.

P.S. Just saw a view of Salt Lake City on the news last night---looks like Beijing China to me. If all the cars there were using E30, it would not be as bad. Not saying it would be clear air, but it would be better. I remember being stuck with my 180 in Boise in 1989 with the same conditions.

Nothing personal Marty so please understand I have no I'll will towards you. Many of us just want to have a choice and be able to readily purchase E0 gas for our older vehicles (I have 4), airplanes (1), motorcycles (2), 4-wheelers (0), snowmobiles(0), etc(4). The mentality that someone knows best (the government, and corporations that take advantage of the people) and is forcing ethanol on us is what is outrageous. As far as I'm concerned, there should be no subsidies period - for any industry! Neither should the government be interfering in what should be a free market economy. If you and others can produce ethanol and make it available in a free market that is fantastic and I applauded you and entrepreneurial spirit. After all, that spirit has built and made this country what it is today. If not, then it just shouldn't be.

Bugs66 wrote:A petition is setup for WH to respond, we have a ways to go. Pass around!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... e/lhq1qgW4

All these White House petitions, if they make the (newly required) 100,000 mark, get no more than a verbal or written response from the White House. No action is initiated by the petition or required of the government. Last week it was reported on our local news channel of one started to sell off the Mount Rushmore Monument to pay down the national debt. Every cause now has an online petition. They are not worth the time to sign and they change nothing. A tweet to your congressman does more.

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post ... 56ed64e6d6

This article...

http://news.yahoo.com/secret-dirty-cost ... 00204.html

...reminded me of this thread. The article is mostly about the ethanol farming policies and realities, and comparisons to oil industry issues.

Oddly enough, my old fuel supplier for years (VALLEY OIL, DOWNEY, ID) just got a new source of straight gas, the company owner uses it in his C-172 and realized a lot of his existing and past (me, I quit him when he went over to the dark side) customers would be more then willing to a pay a little extra for it. This is great news as he is less then 30 miles away from me, the wholesaler I've been using is 65+ miles. I get 300 gallons at a time.

In Texas non ethanol fuel has not been available for several years. We have to run 100LL. it is 5.00 a gallon but my plane and motorcycle like it. Fuel prices at the station are dropping but not at the FBO.

Buck, we have clean unleaded in Alpine, Marfa, and Presidio. Clean unleaded is actually available in many places in TX, just conveniently not in the big cities...

For anyone trying to find clean unleaded check out: www.pure-gas.org

Ogden UT has e-free fuel at Sinclair 7th and Washington BLVD. Try to support if in the area. $3.34 a gallon.

Troy, I'm a farmer---not sure if you have a farm background. Basically the AP is the mouthpiece of the API and since most Americans don't know much about farming believe that AP article. By the way, I know of an airplane that is burning 87 octane E10----that is a blend of 84 octane junk gasoline blended with ethanol to make it good enough. Here in town we can still get 87 E0 that is a blend of 84 and 91 and it sells for 30 cents a gallon more. Haven't been by a straight 91 pump, but it should probably be an additional 20 or 30 cents. Please read the link.
http://www.fuelsamerica.org/blog/entry/ ... on-ethanol

I don't know much about ethanol, but after having honda pumps quit running after ethanol fuel usage in less then a summer, and then running fine again with non ethanol fuel put back in, that I'll never put ethanol in my airplane. Not really an engine that I want to stop running.

but after having honda pumps quit running after ethanol fuel usage in less then a summer

Pioneer Hybrids processing plant at Cherokee Iowa makes it a point to run E10 in the Honda engines that run the belt conveyors and have thousands of hours. Must be the Iowa air.

Marty, the clean unleaded around here is the same price as ethanol-unleaded. Last load we bought in Alpine my dad said was $3.16 for 87 grade E0-unleaded.

Marty, thanks for the link. I grew up on a farm, but I have no knowledge of corn farming or ethanol production. I remembered this thread and the article reminded me of it.

I am grateful that Alaska does not have ethanol in car gas. Not because I have any idea whether ethanol can run okay in aircraft, but because I cannot run it legally in mine. If that changes, then my interest in this issue would change as well. I would hope that if there were any issues, they would be sorted out in the process of getting approvals to run ethanol-blended fuels. And if there aren't any issues then hopefully the approval will be coming soon for all those folks that are unable to get fuel without ethanol.

Skalywag, that's not too different than here----$3.199 for E0 87 and $2.899 E10 87.

180Marty wrote:

but after having honda pumps quit running after ethanol fuel usage in less then a summer

Pioneer Hybrids processing plant at Cherokee Iowa makes it a point to run E10 in the Honda engines that run the belt conveyors and have thousands of hours. Must be the Iowa air.

Let those Honda engines set over the winter and see how that ethanol works out.

Let those Honda engines set over the winter and see how that ethanol works out.

Can't say for sure about the Honda, but I've let the Lawnboy with 2 cycle oil sit for 5 or 6 months without a problem and just called a friend to confirm his experience with Kohler and a Kawasaki powered mowers---no problem.

Marty, I seem to recall that you are financially involved in growing corn for ethanol or in ethanol production itself. Perhaps it you didn't have a vested interest other than wanting your airplane (car, motorcycle, lawnmower,etc) to run right, you'd feel differently. I know I get close to 10% better mileage in my car running e-zero vs E10, at about a 5% price premium, which makes more sense to me both economically as well as environmentally. Since ethanol-laced fuel is specifically prohibited by both Cessna and my EAA mogas STC, I've never tried it in my airplane.

I burn E10 local gas in my daily driver, a 2008 Toyota Yaris sub compact. Yeah, the one that looks like a pregnant roller skate. I have a ScanGauge in it, this device plugs into the computer and gives you real time info on everything related to the engine performance. Between this device and keeping close track of my trip meter between fillups, I keep a running average of my MPG, which usually runs in the mid 40's.

To my surprise, I have not noticed any change when burning E10 as opposed to straight gas. It may be minor enough in this somewhat modern car engine, to not be detectable. I rarely burn straight gas in it it as it doesn't need premium, just regular, but a few times a year I'll steal some of the planes straight mo gas out of the bulk tank, and can't see any difference. This lack of performance difference may differ with other engines of course, and there is no question if I had a ready source of regular octane straight gas I'd prefer using that, as it is I'm forced into using E10 but the newer cars don't seem to care much. All my little engines:welder etc. I use straight gas, for sure.

I probably have as many, if not many more Honda engines around than most, am running 10% ethanol, have not had a failure yet. I am not running ethanol in my plane, cost of 100ll is pretty insignificant in the scheme of things. I am much more worried about the cost of health care insurance, amounts to a lot more dollars.

Steve

I lost 10% on alcohol fuel is well on my vehicles it's standard chemistry not to mention two separate trips to the lawn more mechanic to get the jet cleaned on my Honda lawnmower using Star Tron in the gas has seemed to solve the issue with the lawnmower.
Alcohol absorbs water and Water tends to rust things and gum them up pretty simple to figure that out