I bought my 185 three years ago. The previous owner imported it from Canada, along with a set of FluiDyne 3200's. Digging through the Canadian logs, I've found the first time they were installed, in 1984. But I can't find an STC anywhere. Is it possible an STC wasn't required?

I may have a bunch of questions relating to selling the skis some time down the road. But for now I want to make sure it would be legal for me to install them.

Thanks.

Without looking at the TCDS I'm spit-balling a little bit but if those skis are listed on the TCDS no STC is required.

Mapleflt is correct. They are on the TC.

Aha!

If that's the case, then does it follow that the axles I have are probably the Cessna ski axles?

A1Skinner wrote:Mapleflt us correct. They are on the TC.

Hey man I'm quitting while I'm on a win, but your odds are 50/50 I'd say.

StuBob wrote:Aha!

If that's the case, then does it follow that the axles I have are probably the Cessna ski axles?

That is not guaranteed at all. Are they hollow or solid? Solid steel are preferred for skis.

They’re in 2 pieces: outboard for wheels and inboard for skis. I’m not sure if they’re hollow or solid.

Hollow steel axles are common on 185s and are fine on skis.

I just looked at the TCDS for the 185, and I don’t see an approval for those skis (or any skis), although there are references for procedures with skis installed. I thought they were on there as well. Here's the TC: https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... enDocument

But, I checked the 185F POH I have here, and in the supplements section, it gives procedures, etc, and specifies Fluidyne 3200 or 3600 skis. There is no gross weight limitation on the 3200 skis.

BTW, the Fluidyne Type Certificates are now owned by Wipaire, Inc. if you need references or parts for the skis.

MTV

A1Skinner wrote: ....Solid steel are preferred for skis.

I've seen hollow aluminum (bad), solid aluminum (better), and hollow steel (probably best).
I don't think I've ever seen solid steel axles.

mtv wrote:Hollow steel axles are common on 185s and are fine on skis.

I just looked at the TCDS for the 185, and I don’t see an approval for those skis (or any skis), although there are references for procedures with skis installed. I thought they were on there as well. Here's the TC: https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... enDocument

But, I checked the 185F POH I have here, and in the supplements section, it gives procedures, etc, and specifies Fluidyne 3200 or 3600 skis. There is no gross weight limitation on the 3200 skis.

BTW, the Fluidyne Type Certificates are now owned by Wipaire, Inc. if you need references or parts for the skis.

MTV

Thanks. I'm not sure how to read that TC. Searching it for "ski" yields 16 matches, but nothing really relevant. I knew there was a Ski section in the Supplements, but hadn't read it to see that it specifies which skis. There's nothing about skis in the Parts Manual.

Thanks for the referral to Wipaire, too.

Addendum; Just talked to Jason at Wipaire. They still have installation manuals and they sell consumables, but they aren't making skis. He said he was pretty sure no STC is required for those skis on this airplane, but was unable to get to whatever file would prove it. He's sending a bunch of documents.

BCP delivers!

Thanks!

The "approval" is the aircraft type certificate that identifies them within the listed undercarriages. However they will need to be installed as per the installation and rigging instructions so you will be needing those.

Mapleflt wrote:The "approval" is the aircraft type certificate that identifies them within the listed undercarriages. However they will need to be installed as per the installation and rigging instructions so you will be needing those.

The Type Certificate for the 185 does NOT specify anything except the term "Skis". No model reference of skis at all, but as I noted earlier, the POH (which includes the Flight Manual for these airplanes) specifies Fluidyne 3200 or 3600 retractable skis as well as one model of straight ski in it's skiplane supplement.

One of the problem is that the FAA (formerly the CAA) changed where some of this stuff is, from putting it all on the TC to putting it in equipment lists, supplements, etc.

So, for example, for the 170, the TC specifies several different models of skis that are approved. The 185 TC does not. But, the 3200 skis are approved as a logbook entry by a licensed mechanic....using the installation drawings, as noted above.

MTV

MTV

mtv wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:The "approval" is the aircraft type certificate that identifies them within the listed undercarriages. However they will need to be installed as per the installation and rigging instructions so you will be needing those.

The Type Certificate for the 185 does NOT specify anything except the term "Skis". No model reference of skis at all, but as I noted earlier, the POH (which includes the Flight Manual for these airplanes) specifies Fluidyne 3200 or 3600 retractable skis as well as one model of straight ski in it's skiplane supplement.

One of the problem is that the FAA (formerly the CAA) changed where some of this stuff is, from putting it all on the TC to putting it in equipment lists, supplements, etc.

So, for example, for the 170, the TC specifies several different models of skis that are approved. The 185 TC does not. But, the 3200 skis are approved as a logbook entry by a licensed mechanic....using the installation drawings, as noted above.

MTV

MTV

Thanks for the clarification MTV

Mapleflt wrote:The "approval" is the aircraft type certificate that identifies them within the listed undercarriages.....

Sometime between the 170 TCDS (1948) & the 180 TCDS (1953),
the format was changed.
The 180 TCDS doesn't list all the different approved wheels, skis, etc etc as does the 170 TCDS.
That's a shame because having them all listed in one place like that is pretty handy.
That info is on the 170 TCDS under "data pertinent to all models".
That part of the C185 TCDS is pretty much all required placards ( 7-1/2 pages worth!).

Assuming I don’t sell these skis, I need a recommendation for a mechanic who’s installed them before. I live in Indiana (prime ski country ) but have access to a camp in northern Maine. So a mechanic pretty much anywhere in the Great Lakes or Northern New England would be good enough, location-wise.

On a similar subject, I need an instructor!

And insurance.

What’s most likely is they’ll sit in the crate in the hangar, slowing morphing into heirlooms. When I die, my kids will sell them to some outdoorsy-themed restaurant, where they’ll become wall art.

Help me prevent that!

Is your airplane plumbed for the skis? I will assume it is if they were at one time installed. Do you have the pump and ski stub axles which mount inboard on the axle? Give Derek DeRuiter a call at Norhwoods Aviation in Cadillac MI a call, they do maintenance plus ski, float and tail wheel instruction. This is a road Derek and his dad Don have been down before.


Tim

Thanks. As far as I can tell, I have everything. I’ll see what Derek has to say.

One of the things I found "interesting" all the time in Alaska was the insurance companies I dealt with never seemed to care at all about skis being installed. Never affected insurance rates, near as I could tell. I always mentioned skis during request for Quotes, and they always just mumbled something and moved on. I also wrote it in on request for quote, so there would be no question.

If you have access to a cabin in Maine, why not put the skis in the plane, go to Maine next winter, and get them installed there? Those guys undoubtedly have a lot of ski experience.

MTV

That's not exactly the plan, but close enough. But I don't know who's who up there, so I asked for recommendations.