Backcountry Pilot

[sstjames offline]

Hi,

I started flying because I wanted to be able to fly into the backcountry. I just got my private a few weeks ago, and am now finishing up my tailwheel endorsement. I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on the best way to go about gaining backcountry experience/hours.

Thanks,
Sara

P.S I would love to get a seaplane rating but then after that how do you build hours? Does anyone rent out seaplanes without an instructor once you have the rating?

[Grassstrippilot offline]

Congrats on your PPL. You are going to get a lot of advice on this one so I will keep it short.

First, fly, fly, fly....then fly some more. In other words, gain as much experience as you can, even if it is just going around the pattern. But don't forget to stay proficient in things like slow flight.

Second, before even thinking of the backcountry, get some instruction. For a low time pilot with no backcountry experience, spend the money and get to one of the mountain flying clinics done up in Idaho.

Also start doing your homework. Here a thread that refers to some lite reading for the soon to come long winter nights.

phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1397&highlight=flying+bible

As for the seaplane question, I'm not rated, but from what I gather, it is hard to find a place to rent one after you get your rating. So unless you own one, it will be hard to stay current. AOPA's Pilot had an article on this just a month or so ago.

By the way, if you aren't an AOPA member, join. And do the automatic renewal program so you don't have to deal with the "should I or shouldn't I renew" dilemma every year. It's a great organization with some great benefits.

Good luck!

[Bear_Builder offline]

Again Congratulations on your Private.

First, get a copy of the Mountain Flying Bible by Sparky Emerson, read it and practice the things he talks about at home.

Second, practice. Make every landing a spot landing. Not necessarily on the numbers, because if you're short...ouch! Pick a taxiway access point, or some other marker and try to land right at that point, smoothly, as slow as possible and right on the center line each time. Carefully practice to determine the perfect approch speed for your plane at different loadings. Practice holding that precise speed every time. Practice in cross winds. Practice short and soft field take-offs as well.

Then fly to as many different airports as you can. Gets you practice setting up your landing without familiar landmarks.s

Have fun
Phil

[whee offline]

Not necessarily on the numbers, because if you're short...ouch!

And that is the truth!!! Learned that during my training. Luckily it didn't hurt anything and my instructor couldn't stop laughing Ofcourse that was after we were sure the gear were okay.

Jon

[Rob offline]

sstjames,
the only seaplanes I can think of for rent (solo) are Brian Schanches. http://www.adventureseaplanes.com/ I met him several years ago while shopping for a cub, First rate gentleman, and great outfit. But kinda far for your purpose you could do the rating at Sheble, (Laughlin AZ), but they won't rent
as to local back country stuff I sent you a PM.... there's plenty of playgrounds in AZ

[skycop offline]

Cool another AZ person!
I'm not seaplane rated yet either, but it is one of my goals. Check out the Seaplane Pilots Association website www.seaplanes.org and check out the training section. It lists most of the places to train in the US and Canada and indicates the ones that offer solo rental. Besides Adventure Seaplanes that Rob mentions, Twitchell's Seaplane Base in Maine also offers solo rental. But again, far away from us here in AZ!

[patrol guy offline]

...just to agree with anti-cub, get a copy of Mountain Flying Bible by Sparky Emerson. Learn most of his stuff and practice a bunch. JG

[Idaho SuperCub offline]

Save the money on the mountain flying clinic/seminar and hire a local instructor for some serious one on one. These seminars usually run several days at a time and involve multiple instructors. When they fly with you, they are not CFI instructors, but "Qualified Observers". Why, most likely their liability insurance. You bust your own airplane, you are pilot in command. Don't get me wrong, these seminars are a good source of information, but you'll get more for your buck if you hire a local instructor . .

Idaho Supercub

[hotrod180 offline]

Talked to a guy at the Arlington Fly-in this year who flew in all the way from the Riverside CA area. Had an Aeronca Chief with a stroked C-85 and a set of 31" BW's. He did alot of off-airport op's out in the desert, sounded like a lot of fun. Not alot of money into the airplane for the amount of fun it sounded like he was having with it.
I'm sure there's some similar people/places in AZ, Sara, just do some networking. Rental fleet operators usually frown on backcountry op's, so you'll want your own airplane or maybe find a partnership. The Chief guy proves you don't need to invest a fortune to peg the run-meter. Chief,Champ,120/140,Cub, T-Craft-- lotsa suitable small airplanes out there. Most are a compromise on speed vs STOL though.
Have fun!

Eric

[CAVU offline]

...just to agree with anti-cub, get a copy of Mountain Flying Bible by Sparky Emerson. Learn most of his stuff and practice a bunch. JG

"Imeson" guys! It's "Imeson!" He's a lot more fun reading then Emerson, IMHO. (That would be the great Ralph Waldo "Pepper" Emerson. . . .)

CAVU

[Hammer offline]

Sara,
My advice is to buy a plane. Backcountry flying requires a higher than average level of skill, which for most people translates directly into a higher than average number of hours. You'll just never get those hours as a renter, and if you do you'll have wasted a tremendous amount of money. A few hundred hours in a small, old, underpowered airplane will do more for your flying than anything else.

Most of the mountain flying clinics require an airplane of at least 200hp, and a pilot with at least 100 hours of PIC time in that aircraft before they will instruct you in it. That's probably a good rule, and it's fine if you have the money to go there, but if you only have a hundred hours to start with it's getting a bit ahead of yourself.

It's sort of a different thread, but if you look for the right airplane, it's not nearly as expensive as you might think. You don't need power, or range, or fancy instruments. Depending on where you're flying, you don't even need a radio or transponder. For that matter, you don't need a starter motor or battery. It's amazing how little you really need to fly, and once you take all that crap out of a plane they not only get a lot cheaper, but they get a lot lighter!

As far as books go, the best book I've found yet is Stick and Rudder.
good luck,
ravi

[Bear_Builder offline]

...just to agree with anti-cub, get a copy of Mountain Flying Bible by Sparky Emerson. Learn most of his stuff and practice a bunch. JG

"Imeson" guys! It's "Imeson!" He's a lot more fun reading then Emerson, IMHO. (That would be the great Ralph Waldo "Pepper" Emerson. . . .)

CAVU

Oops! My apologies to Sparky.

Most of the mountain flying clinics require an airplane of at least 200hp...

Guess that rules out Cubs huh?

Phil

[TomD offline]

I think the McCall mountain flying course actually rents a Super Cub and C172 both 180hp for the course.

A qualified dedicated instructor sounds like the way to go. That way the instructor can customize the course to suit the student's needs.

TD

[Idaho SuperCub offline]

Anticub,

The last time I flew a Cessna 150 was when I was 16! How old are you anyway?

Idaho Supercub

[mtnflyr offline]

F.E. Potts has a great small book and also a website dealing with backcountry (Alaska) flying and lots of details involved in this pursuit.

[Bear_Builder offline]

Anticub,

The last time I flew a Cessna 150 was when I was 16! How old are you anyway?

Idaho Supercub

Oh man! How long ago was that? You don't know what you're missing. If you can still shoehorn yourself into one, and arn't too high a DA, and have lots of runway, they're such a fun little plane. So light and quick on the controls compared to the Citabria I learned to fly in.

Think I'll buzz out to Goldking this weekend and do a little grouse hunting.


Phil

P.S. I go by Tundra_Flier on most forums (name is a long story in itself) and my buck fifty is named "Tundra Toy", short for Tundra Flier's toy plane

[wannabe offline]

Quote from Idaho Supercub

{ they are not CFI instructors, but "Qualified Observers". }

Actually they are instructors. They can sign your log books just like any other instructor for the dual time you get. The only one who was not allowed to do a sign off was the couple of times I got to fly with Jim Larkin while he was receiving chemo treatments. Was still the best and most informative flights EVER. But, then, I am a history buff.

91.3 You ARE pilot in command, so if ya bust your plane, it is still your plane your bust, always been that way, probably always will be that way. The classes do have you read and maybe sign a statement to that effect just so you REMEMBER that you are STILL pilot in command of your own plane, your own flights, and still responsible for the outcomes and results. Something akin to being responsible for your own actions!

My personal advise is to take one of the Basic seminars to start with because they do have a lot of structured information that a single instructor is likely to overlook. Then try to find and individual who is able and willing to introduce you to specific strips.

One of the reasons I have taken more than one of the seminars is because it has been the best way to get a Wings Phase that really taught me something new, and was far more intersting than the usual BFR.

Nice folks too.

Nufffornow

PS
to Idaho Supercub
In case you remember it,
I bought Jim Tracy's ugly old green 170 out of McCall

[Capt. Kirk offline]

Anticub,

The last time I flew a Cessna 150 was when I was 16! How old are you anyway?

Idaho Supercub

Oh man! How long ago was that? You don't know what you're missing. If you can still shoehorn yourself into one, and arn't too high a DA, and have lots of runway, they're such a fun little plane. So light and quick on the controls compared to the Citabria I learned to fly in.

Think I'll buzz out to Goldking this weekend and do a little grouse hunting.


Phil

P.S. I go by Tundra_Flier on most forums (name is a long story in itself) and my buck fifty is named "Tundra Toy", short for Tundra Flier's toy plane

Phil, if you're looking for some grouse head into that Blair Lake strip. They were thick in there when we were there...hell, you coulda hunted them with a sharp stick!

[Bear_Builder offline]

Kirk: How's that strip looking these days? Last time I flew over it, a couple years ago, it looked pretty badly rutted and muddy.

Phil

[sstjames offline]

Thanks everyone for the great advise.

I can't afford much, but anyone have an idea where to find a really cheap working plane? Also I would love suggestions on good starter backcountry planes.

Thanks,
Sara