We finally had a day here with no winds, fog or snow, it's been a while. I had a bundle of cedar shakes to pick up at a lumberyard about a 45 minute or more drive away, but 20 minutes flying time, so I called them up, paid with my credit card, and they ran them out to the Blackfoot Airport for free, small town kind of service! While in the area I also had a crane job to eyeball near a Indian casino, so I HAD to go flying.

I'm still working on my system for my launches, once the plane is at the top of the runway and on the skis, it is going downhill no matter how hard I press on the brakes, this time a passerby/dog walker was pressed into service. Using the Kubota as a rigging point, she kept it in place as I got my act together. Shannon is the wife of an Air Force officer very high up in the chain of command in aircraft maintenance, like two or 3 down from top dog, currently stationed in Afghanistan. They also bought my last house a few years back, so we have a history, great people. Her recounting to her husband of what happened next will be a little comic relief for him I'm sure!

OK, now I'm in, skis are down, and Shannon is now the only thing keeping the plane from sliding forward as I restart, she has the rope in one hand and her dog in the other... and as agreed 10 seconds after startup I go to full throttle and she releases the rope and away I go, lifting off in about 140' of untracked snow. It was 7 degrees. Now I'm trailing 50' of 1/2" rope behind me, I just need to remember that when I get to Blackfoot.

Once arriving at Blackfoot, I checked in with S7-S guru Joel Milloway at his skunkworks, he is the go to man for help in building, and many different mods he has came up with for the S-7, like extended range wing tanks, his own design wing tips, and many more. Recently moved to my area it is always fun to see whatsup in his shop. Here is his own personal bird under construction. With his wing tanks and header tank he has almost 30 gallons of usable fuel, and remember the 912S uses around 4 GPH!

Here's me in my new Air Force insulated overalls, 30 bucks brand new at The Sportmans Guide, they still have some large and extra large in stock, a killer deal. item #33676

After loading the bundle of shakes, I flew a few miles away to my next week crane job, a grocery story next to a casino on the local res. I'll give a print of this shot to the contractor, plus I have a heads up when I pull up to the jobsite, I'll already know where I need to setup the crane, it's a handy way to do the crane business and suck up to the people writing the check.
On the way home the fun started: first I got this moose looking right into the camera, he (?) was a big one. Then, after a few mountainside landings without coming to a full stop, I made this last one full STOP, as in oh-oh.....here it is in the summerand yesterday The last couple feet the plane really slowed down fast, and then just stopped with a final lurch. Hmmm, getting out it was evident the snow was of two different layers, and unconsolidated, fluff on top and something more substantial down below. I sunk in up my knees taking this picture, got back in and gave it full throttle. Nothing happened. My first thought was I had ALMOST made it all year without a major screwup, only 9 hours to go! I got to try out my new shovel and experience the thrill of stomping out a ski track with the snowshoes, keeping a close eye on the lowering sun and fully aware it was 2 below the night before. At one point I remembered I had a bundle of cedar shakes I could light on fire with my highway flare. but I really had other plans for that evening. I had stopped sideways on the slope, and after the second try at full throttle the little bit of digging I had down in front of the skis did the trick, and the takeoff was surprisingly short. The last picture shows how my snowshoe track didn't even get used!

What I experienced I believe was the heat caused by friction on landing, that welded me down upon full stop. Feeling under the skis I felt no stuck on snow, oddly enough, but once I was able to move off that patch of snow I'd stopped on it was no problem. These skis are slick as they come, but I have had the same thing happen to a snowboard that experienced a rapid temp change. I'm glad it happened, all part of the education in ski flying, I had plenty of warning, but ignored the symptoms and shut the engine off. Next time if I need to land in such conditions, I'll keep going until back in my landing tracks, and then shutdown, at least then I won't need the snowshoes to stomp out a track. 10 minutes later the plane was back in the heated hangar I was REALLY glad to have those fat Datum skis, made for a 2,000 lb gross plane, my S-7 was at about 950 lbs that day. Today is windy again, 20+ and cross, and hell I'm a little hung over anyway

Nice, looks like too much fun!

I thought Joe was starting a writing your name in the snow trend?? I don't see you name in the snow???



Another great trip/flying report! Glad you got er outa there!!

58Skylane wrote:I thought Joe was starting a writing your name in the snow trend?? I don't see you name in the snow???



Another great trip/flying report! Glad you got er outa there!!

I'll have to try some snow writing later, yesterday I was real focused on getting the hell outa there! Worse come to worse, I was a 45 minute snowshoe hike to get to a road, but that would have left the plane there, and today it is windy. I have to see how people tie down in frozen ground/deep snow, I heard something about burying a piece of plywood with a rope through it, and throwing water on it. More stuff to pack around!

Bonus points. Beautiful pics, fun AND it sounds like a deductible trip.

I didn't realize until I saw the wings on the new Rans project that it had such pronounced Horner wing tips. Extra lift, without a longer wing.
Hope you get over the hangover within the new year.

Great report of some real world experiences.

That snow landing pic was worth it (sitting here in my 70°F house), very nice!

Nice pics. I always thought my 172 was good enough, but now the voices are telling me I need a ski plane!

courierguy wrote:Here's me in my new Air Force insulated overalls, 30 bucks brand new at The Sportmans Guide, they still have some large and extra large in stock, a killer deal. item #33676

I love mine too! It *WAS* a killer deal. Past tense. The ones we got are aramid (nomex), and they are insulated. Item #33676 are polyester/cotton and are not insulated.

Very nice! Very nice!

Great job! Had an epic myself yesterday. Will post shortly.

I was also in the Blackfoot area today. I went to Pingree to get some Taylorcraft parts. I would've flown but the visibility was pretty poor when I left Rexburg, but by the time I hit Rigby I was kicking myself for driving

courierguy wrote:These skis are slick as they come, but I have had the same thing happen to a snowboard that experienced a rapid temp change

Question... Do you ski flyers with poly bases wax your skis?

We're all familiar with the need to wax Ptex bases on strap-to-your-foot snow skis, but I've never heard of anyone prepping their aircraft skis, though it seems no less important. Perhaps it's just such a pain in the ass once you've mounted them for the season that it's unrealistic?

I melt and drip temperature-formulated ski wax onto my bases, then use a low-heat clothes iron to smear it around and melt it into all the microscopic texture of the base. Afterward I scrape it off with a sharp piece of 3/16" polycarbonate. In warm snow, this can make ALL the difference. Super cold snow, same thing.

Zane wrote:

courierguy wrote:These skis are slick as they come, but I have had the same thing happen to a snowboard that experienced a rapid temp change

Question... Do you ski flyers with poly bases wax your skis?

We're all familiar with the need to wax Ptex bases on strap-to-your-foot snow skis, but I've never heard of anyone prepping their aircraft skis, though it seems no less important. Perhaps it's just such a pain in the ass once you've mounted them for the season that it's unrealistic?

I melt and drip temperature-formulated ski wax onto my bases, then use a low-heat clothes iron to smear it around and melt it into all the microscopic texture of the base. Afterward I scrape it off with a sharp piece of 3/16" polycarbonate. In warm snow, this can make ALL the difference. Super cold snow, same thing.

Zane,
I took my Datum skis to the same snowboard shop that tunes my boards, and got laughed out of there. No need, and no way, to wax that HDPE or whatever we call that white plastic bottom stuff. Not like ptex point being. BTW, when I got bogged down after fully stopping (first time in maybe 50 landings at least, but this was the coldest, about 7 or 8 above) when I shoveled halfway under the fronts of the skis (super light fluff and real easy to move, I couldn't believe the skis were sitting ON the stuff) I then felt the bottom of the skis, expecting to feel some 80 grit type froze on ice crystals. There were none, smooth as a babies bottom! With both main skis front third sitting totally clear of the snow, I went back and gave a mighty tug straightbackwards, and could not budge it! I think when I got in and fired her up again, the skis kinda rocked forward into the shoveled area and the friction was broken, and away I went. I have a flight coming up, maybe tomorrow if the weather gods smile, where I will pay a bit more attention (and I will be on level ground with plenty of room) as to where and how I park. I plan to land and drag my parking spot, and then while still moving at a slow jog pace make a big 180 and then finally stop after lining up the skis in the tracks I just made. It is going to be very deep undisturbed snow, I'll report how it goes.

Hello courierguy.
Your having way to much fun. When flying skies on my
T-craft somtimes when the skies would stick abit I would get
out and rock the wings at the sturt attach point on the wing.
This seemed to help dislodge the skies. But then again sometimes
the price for having fun is shoveling out. Have fun thanks for the
pictures for us flat landers.
46tcrft

46TCRFT wrote:Hello courierguy.
Your having way to much fun. When flying skies on my
T-craft somtimes when the skies would stick abit I would get
out and rock the wings at the sturt attach point on the wing.
This seemed to help dislodge the skies. But then again sometimes
the price for having fun is shoveling out. Have fun thanks for the
pictures for us flat landers.
46tcrft

As obvious as that sounds, I didn't think of it. I'll try it next time....I like it, (rocking the wings), won't side load the gear either, I DO no better then to grab the rear fuselage handles and try and yaw it out, I've heard horror stories of the long moment arm and the stuck skis combining to be real hard on the gear legs. Thus, all I tried was a straight rearward pull, next time I'll rock. I was just "happy" to get to use my new trick breakdown shovel, and while wearing my snowshoes to boot. BTW The T-Craft, of the classics is most like an S-7, or vice versa, other then the side by side /tandem thing, it flys on the wing, not on the engine, make sense? I sure enjoyed my 1 1/2 years of ownership of my '46 T cart, GREAT plane.Thanks for the tip, this is why I hang out here

Ptex is HDWPE, or some formulation of it. Not sure why it couldn't be waxed. Easy to try! If you can get your airplane upside down that is.

Great report Tom! Keep having fun.

Cheers

Zane wrote:

courierguy wrote:These skis are slick as they come, but I have had the same thing happen to a snowboard that experienced a rapid temp change

Question... Do you ski flyers with poly bases wax your skis?

We're all familiar with the need to wax Ptex bases on strap-to-your-foot snow skis, but I've never heard of anyone prepping their aircraft skis, though it seems no less important. Perhaps it's just such a pain in the ass once you've mounted them for the season that it's unrealistic?

I melt and drip temperature-formulated ski wax onto my bases, then use a low-heat clothes iron to smear it around and melt it into all the microscopic texture of the base. Afterward I scrape it off with a sharp piece of 3/16" polycarbonate. In warm snow, this can make ALL the difference. Super cold snow, same thing.

In the dog-mushing world, some folks use plastic runners that are impregnated with glide wax. Great if you could get this stuff for your UHMW ski bases. But then you might need 4-5 sets of skis, each with bases for various temperatures. Slightly easier to change out dogsled runners.
http://www.ne-outfitters.com/ecommerce/category.php?vuid=11
I have heard of people hot-waxing their bases, but consensus seems to be that it just doesn't last all that long.

UHMW is the stuff that ski bottoms are TYPICALLY made from. This is a food grade stuff, designed specifically such that food particles, etc, won't penetrate, and thus the stuff is safe in a food handling environment, in contact with food. I've tried waxing, but aside from it being a bitch to accomplish, the stuff wears off like instantly--as in the first takeoff.

Courierguy:

Next time you come to a stop on skis, keep the engine running, and wait for perhaps 40 seconds to a minute. Then push up some power, and taxi ahead one ski length. Wait 30 seconds or so, then move ahead another ski length. Now, shut down. Ski bottoms do experience SOME friction, and they warm up as a consequence, even at very cold temps. In fact, they warm up enough to melt a tiny bit of snow, which then creates a LOT of friction when you try to start out again. Even on shallow snow, this little trick of cooling off the ski bottoms will pay off.

Also, when I get ready to go again, after being parked a while, I get EVERYthing ready to go--as in READY, then I give the toe of each ski a gentle kick sideways. Not a HARD kick, just enough to SHEAR that ice crystal/ski layer off. The toe of each ski only has to move a half inch or so to accomplish this. Then, jump aboard, and let er rip.

Much easier to get going this way. I don't bother rocking the wings any more, because my airplane is too tall for that in deep snow, and anyway, a quick gentle kick will accomplish the same thing.

You're actually getting into a little bit of snow there. When it's up to your chest, it's officially deep snow.

Continue having fun....

MTV

courierguy and ajfriz, Got the 170 out a little on new year's as well, finally finished the oil cooler stc(like I needed it now) and the annual, great day to be in the air. Good meeting you ajfriz, hope the tcraft parts work for ya! courierguy, there's plenty of snow at pingree if you want to try it out. watch the irrigation risers 2/3 to the west on each side of runway. should be pretty good snow on eastern 2/3 of main runway. or just use the wheels! there should be someone in the far south hangar.

ping170 wrote:courierguy and ajfriz, Got the 170 out a little on new year's as well, finally finished the oil cooler stc(like I needed it now) and the annual, great day to be in the air. Good meeting you ajfriz, hope the tcraft parts work for ya! courierguy, there's plenty of snow at pingree if you want to try it out. watch the irrigation risers 2/3 to the west on each side of runway. should be pretty good snow on eastern 2/3 of main runway. or just use the wheels! there should be someone in the far south hangar.

It was good to meet you guys as well. I'm pretty excited about the parts I bought and hopefully I'll have this old bird flying soon. You have a really nice 170 BTW.

Tom, Good to see you again. Getting real close to flying again and when Dingle Swingle gets back we will be doing a daylight raid on your place so get ready.