Well I finally got my insurance payoff and all is settled out so I can talk about what happened. This past summer I ground looped my plane resulting in the left main gear folding up causing a wing tip to hit the ground and a prop strike while the engine was running. The damage to the plane would be repairable but the cost of the prop and engine teardown meant the plane was totaled.

When it happened I was very upset and somewhat confused, I just didn't understand quite what had happened, what was cause and what was effect.

The conditions of the flight were as follows: weather perfect, winds 3 to 4 knots variable, load four adults partial fuel.

We had just landed at our home airport after a round trip for lunch. Due to load and temperature I landed a little faster than usual, let the tail down gently and rolled out down the runway. We were down to about twenty mph or less when I felt the plane start to swing to the right, I put in left rudder and couldn't stop the rotation, I got into the left brake, I think left aileron and full left rudder and the rate of rotation increased to the right. I remember feeling a couple of thumps and we spun completely around facing the opposite direction.

I shut off fuel, ignition and battery and we all unloaded quickly, I jumped back in the plane and turned the power back on to call another plane on the radio to warn him that the runway was blocked.

I called flight service, insurance, DOT, troopers and on and on. When I finally got clearance I used my little loader to lift the damaged wing and rolled the plane to my hanger and blocked it up.

My best guess as to cause was that I had been hit in the right side of the tail by a gust of wind and had failed to catch the loop, I have landed in much much worse conditions than this and had no big problems but that was all I could think of.

I had lost the left main tire, broken off the wheel and axle assembly, folded the gear leg up under the plane and the aforementioned damage to the wing, struts, prop sheet metal and tubing.

All of this damage should have made me loop to the left!

A couple of weeks later I was under the plane taking pictures of the right side gear leg and I looked down the length of the belly to the tail wheel. The tail spring was canted off to the side noticeably, when I went back to the tail and lifted it up the tail wheel assembly flopped around completely loose. Upon inspection I found the aft bracket had completely broken off and the tail spring was only held in place by the front socket and the weight of the plane. The bracket showed new, shiny break on only one of four sides, the other welds had been broken for quite some time showing rust and planishing.

This long sad story is posted in the hope that any of you boys and girls flying old tail wheel planes will take a really close look at any and all weldments on their planes. Had i spotted this crack in time it would have requited a two hour welding repair instead of a totaled plane.

Best of luck to you all, now I will have to do my flying vicariously through you so go do something really cool.

Shane

Shorton

I'm sorry to hear about your event. Obviously, big picture, all four of you are safe. Very interesting finding on the tailwheel issues. What type of aircraft and tailwheel were involved?

Thank you for the follow up post Shane. Reminds all of us to thoroughly inspect things more often than once per year! Good information on the tail stuff. Thanks again!

Lower longerons at the back where the tailwheel attached was a common Pawnee problem. It was hard to clean back there. Usually the tailwheel leaned a bit before failure.

Thank you for sharing your experience and lesson, painful as it is. I once discovered a wrinkle in the fabric of one of my main gear legs. We cut the fabric off and found the forward tube broken completely through at mid-span (nowhere near a weld). The fractured ends had mushroomed as the break pounded on itself. The fabric had been holding everything in well-enough alignment to handle landing loads for who knows how long. It is only through pure luck that my main gear didn't fail. So I agree: inspect planes carefully and don't dismiss stuff that looks fishy!

sorry, should have stated what the plane is, It is a Stinson 108-2 and the tailwheel is a Scott 3200. the failure was in the bracket welded to the bottom of the longeron tubing where the spring is bolted on.

shorton wrote:A couple of weeks later I was under the plane taking pictures of the right side gear leg and I looked down the length of the belly to the tail wheel. The tail spring was canted off to the side noticeably, when I went back to the tail and lifted it up the tail wheel assembly flopped around completely loose. Upon inspection I found the aft bracket had completely broken off and the tail spring was only held in place by the front socket and the weight of the plane. The bracket showed new, shiny break on only one of four sides, the other welds had been broken for quite some time showing rust and planishing.

Sorry to hear of your loss!!
I broke the same bracket on my plane under similar payload and weather conditions, the retaining bolts to be specific. Lucky for me I was on a deeply rutted runway, so the plane didn't require any steerage. That bracket takes a beating, I implore others to inspect their's periodically, they usually wear out over time. I replaced mine with a much stronger design.

Sorry to hear of your accident.....no fun.

Just as a point of clarification, if the plane is swerving to the right, your ailerons should be full right.....the old adage is "Drive it into the ditch".

Not that this would have had any influence on the outcome of your episode.

Good luck, and I hope you're able to get back into a plane soon.

MTV

Sorry for the loss, and good for you to find the cause.

I had a ground loop in a J-3 earlier this year with no damage, but it really bugged me as to the fact that it happened. While it was a mixed up gusting crosswind with opposite socks at each end of the runway, I thought it was good until it wasn't. Luckily it was slow enough that I just slid around with the brake locked up trying to stop it. Didn't roll the tire or dip the wing.

Fast forward to 3 weeks later and I was talking to another instructor who had recently ground looped the same Cub with a student. So they took a look at it and found the steerable detent broken, so if you added any right rudder at all the spring simply yanked it hard over and around it went. Replaced it and life was good again.

As you said - inspection and maintenance are everything.

pb

mtv wrote:
Just as a point of clarification, if the plane is swerving to the right, your ailerons should be full right.....the old adage is "Drive it into the ditch".

OK, I'll ask for a teaspoon of free ground school here... I'm guessing the aerodynamic reason for this is to use the down aileron (left wing) to make some additional drag... to oppose the swerve... because the down aileron will make more drag in the tail-low attitude than the up aileron will?

EZFlap wrote:

mtv wrote:
Just as a point of clarification, if the plane is swerving to the right, your ailerons should be full right.....the old adage is "Drive it into the ditch".

OK, I'll ask for a teaspoon of free ground school here... I'm guessing the aerodynamic reason for this is to use the down aileron (left wing) to make some additional drag... to oppose the swerve... because the down aileron will make more drag in the tail-low attitude than the up aileron will?

Bingo! You win the prize..... Taught to me early in my tailwheel experience by a WW II Mustang driver, and reinforced later by a C-46 captain.

MTV

I ground looped my Kitfox and know exactly why. Not paying attention on the roll out. It was a good lesson.

mtv wrote:

EZFlap wrote:

mtv wrote:
Just as a point of clarification, if the plane is swerving to the right, your ailerons should be full right.....the old adage is "Drive it into the ditch".

OK, I'll ask for a teaspoon of free ground school here... I'm guessing the aerodynamic reason for this is to use the down aileron (left wing) to make some additional drag... to oppose the swerve... because the down aileron will make more drag in the tail-low attitude than the up aileron will?

Bingo! You win the prize..... Taught to me early in my tailwheel experience by a WW II Mustang driver, and reinforced later by a C-46 captain.

MTV

I hadn't thought of the drag aspect, but I had thought about the potential lift created by steering the ailerons in the direction of the turn might be able to keep the wingtip off the ground. Sounds like there's a couple of benefits.

Sorry about the incident, Shorton! Do you have any pictures of the damage?

Love that "Drive it into the ditch", Ill add it to "Fly it all the way to the crash".

I think speed is so unforgiving in a ground loop. For me it is the convincing argument for using full flaps and three pointing in sketchy conditions - I am just going a lot slower. Energy is proportional to speed squared.

I agree. It is the speed that totals tailwheel airplanes. We have to let students use the controls if they are to learn. We don't have to let them land fast.

Been waiting a lot of years for another story from you. - But NOT This One.
Guess I'll go dig out the scarred old blood brothers again.

Sorry to hear about this. I hope you can get back in the air soon. Thanks for sharing. I know it's hard but I think it is worth sharing to hopefully help others.

I guess I understand the steer it into the ditch deal but at less than twenty mph I don't think it would have helped, no real airflow. But if I had the time I would have tried anything, hell I would have thrown out an anchor it I had one.

1:1 Scale wrote:I hadn't thought of the drag aspect, but I had thought about the potential lift created by steering the ailerons in the direction of the turn might be able to keep the wingtip off the ground. Sounds like there's a couple of benefits.

Sorry about the incident, Shorton! Do you have any pictures of the damage?

Yes - I always thought you kept your ailerons "into the turn" to keep both wheels on the ground for as long as possible, to improve brake-steering and braking.

Aerodynamic drag is surely pittance at 20kts, particularly compared to the brakes.

Sorry for your loss. As one of the least qualified albeit legal tailwheel pilots around, I offer no advice other than to say I'm glad I drive a trike.

The one thing I've noticed, though, watching taildraggers land from time to time, is that the tailwheels really get a beating. Often they wobble like the wheels of a grocery cart, and I'll bet the pilot doesn't even notice that. Many planned 3 pointers are actually tailwheel first, and that seems to put an enormous strain on the stinger. Even wheel landings often result in a sudden plop to the ground, also straining the tailwheel. It isn't any wonder that every so often, the darned things fail.

Cary