Hand prop accident
Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:54 pm
- Coyote Ugly offline
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- Location: Middle of Nevada (Middle of Nowhere?)
Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:05 pm
bumper wrote:svanarts wrote:Happened to a Champ (why is it always a Champ?) just a few years ago near here too. It took off and flew about 3 miles then impacted into a field wing low and destroyed itself. I think it took off from Schellville in the norther San Francisco Bay Area. REALLY luckly no one was hurt, the bay area is pretty congested.
Ain't lost an Airknocker yet.
If that's the one I'm thinking of, it happeded more like 8 years ago. An old guy was hand propping it at a private strip (I think) near Santa Rosa, CA. If flew east sans pilot all the way to just south of Lake Berryessa, crashing into a small canyon there.
I was up over Berryessa in my 7AC Champ that day, and about the same time as the pilot-less Champ. Never saw it though. I flew over the wreck the next day. It went way more than 3 miles, more like 30 miles!
I also heard about that Champ back east that flew for several hours and almost landed itself. That one's not an urban legend either.
bumper
Yeah, age takes its toll... But I did have Champ right!!
Why is it always a Champ??
Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:48 am
GumpAir wrote:...........
LAX02LA058 .............. The unoccupied airplane was destroyed, and there were no injuries. The airplane took off with no one aboard when the private pilot started the engine from outside the airplane by pulling the propeller. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal flight operated by the owner......No flight plan was filed. ...........
This report cracked me up. "VMC conditions prevailed for the personal flight....no flight plan was filed".....stop it.... you're killing me!
Frivolities aside, it's a shame a good airplane was wiped out due to foolishness. Glad no one was hurt.
A similar thing almost happened to a guy I know propping his Supercub at Copalis Beach. If he hadn't been quick on the draw to chase it down, his airplane woulda either wound up in the ocean or flown off toward the Aleutians with zero souls on board.
Oh, I liked the "210 cleared direct to the VOR" line too-- a classic!
Eric
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:54 am
patrol guy wrote:............Same thing except he didn't hang on. The plane took off and flew around, narrowly missing some hangars, then it climbed and flew straight for 2-3 hours until it ran out of gas.......
"Flew around" ?
Geez, this thread is really cracking me up!
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:18 am
They will fly themselves,
My copilot a couple years ago told me of his experience. He was out flying his Champ and his buddy was tagging along in a C-170. He landed the Champ on a dry lake bed, to take a leak, about 70 miles from Las Vegas.
Having left the Champ idling and unattended he was shocked to watch it accelerate away and begin to climb. His buddy in the 170 landed and picked him up. They chased the Champ for over two hours as it lazily soared over the countryside...climbing, decending and gently turning from side to side. After two hours she ran out of fuel and glided to it's death in Lake Meade.
I worked my way through college as a line boy. Part of my job was to start up the airplanes and taxi them to the terminal office for the charter pilots to fly. On cold winter days we would preheat them, warm the engines and then bring them to the gate. I had been taught to pull the prop through a few times during cold weather, before trying to start the engine.
One bitterly cold morning,after preheating a C-206, I began to pull the prop through. On about the third rotation...I heard a click...then a roar. The engine fired and began to run at about 1,000 RPM. My nose was inches from the whirling prop.
Someone had left the mags on, the mixture rich, the night before. Gratefully the airplane was securly tied down and the brake set. It only surged forward a couple of inches. Death came very close 42 years ago!
Then there was the "party unamed" who 20 years ago propped his Pitts without having the tail tied down. The throttle was opened too much. She started and began to roll away as this guy grabbed the left wing "I strut." The little airplane began to rotate in circles as the pilot held on. Faster and faster.... it was about to break loose!! Then an observer ran onto the ramp, blocked the tail, stopped the rotation and held on tight.
One lucky pilot....who moments later flew away aboard his prize little jewel.
Be careful out there.
Bob
My copilot a couple years ago told me of his experience. He was out flying his Champ and his buddy was tagging along in a C-170. He landed the Champ on a dry lake bed, to take a leak, about 70 miles from Las Vegas.
Having left the Champ idling and unattended he was shocked to watch it accelerate away and begin to climb. His buddy in the 170 landed and picked him up. They chased the Champ for over two hours as it lazily soared over the countryside...climbing, decending and gently turning from side to side. After two hours she ran out of fuel and glided to it's death in Lake Meade.
I worked my way through college as a line boy. Part of my job was to start up the airplanes and taxi them to the terminal office for the charter pilots to fly. On cold winter days we would preheat them, warm the engines and then bring them to the gate. I had been taught to pull the prop through a few times during cold weather, before trying to start the engine.
One bitterly cold morning,after preheating a C-206, I began to pull the prop through. On about the third rotation...I heard a click...then a roar. The engine fired and began to run at about 1,000 RPM. My nose was inches from the whirling prop.
Someone had left the mags on, the mixture rich, the night before. Gratefully the airplane was securly tied down and the brake set. It only surged forward a couple of inches. Death came very close 42 years ago!
Then there was the "party unamed" who 20 years ago propped his Pitts without having the tail tied down. The throttle was opened too much. She started and began to roll away as this guy grabbed the left wing "I strut." The little airplane began to rotate in circles as the pilot held on. Faster and faster.... it was about to break loose!! Then an observer ran onto the ramp, blocked the tail, stopped the rotation and held on tight.
One lucky pilot....who moments later flew away aboard his prize little jewel.
Be careful out there.
Bob
Living the Dream
Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:39 pm
hotrod150 wrote:z3skybolt wrote:..........
Having left the Champ idling and unattended he was shocked to watch it accelerate away and begin to climb. .............
I can see if it started with the throttle WFO, but from an idle???
Well...
...a lot of throttles on little airplanes will creep forward as the engine vibrates and the airplane accellerates over the ground. I know the one on my Pitts would ....if it were not clamped down tight.
It only takes about 50% throttle movement to get most light airplanes off the ground lightly loaded. An empty Champ with unlimited runway wouldn't need much power.
Bob
Living the Dream
Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:31 pm
svanarts wrote:Happened to a Champ (why is it always a Champ?) j.
On January 9, 2003, about 1330 Pacific standard time, an Aeronca 7AC, N84889, collided with a Boeing Stearman PT-17, N68820, at the Jean, Nevada, airport after the airplane started and left its parking place while being hand propped. Both airplanes were being operated under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. Both airplanes received substantial damage. The commercial pilot, the sole occupant, in the Boeing was not injured. The private pilot of the Aeronca was not injured; however, an individual who had been holding the tail, as well as a bystander who attempted to render assistance, both received minor injuries. The intended personal cross-country flight was to depart Jean, en route to the North Las Vegas, Nevada airport. Day visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed.
The pilot of the Aeronca was attempting to hand prop his airplane without it being secured and without anyone at the controls.
When the Aeronca did start, it got away from both the pilot and the individual who was attempting to hold the tail. Another bystander tried to help stop the Aeronca but was knocked down on the ground and struck his head. The airplane then turned to the right until the right front of the Aeronca struck the right front of the Boeing.
The pilot of the Boeing was waiting in the run-up area, with the airplane engine idling, and was waiting to depart with the Aeronca as a flight of two.
- onceAndFutr_alaskaflyer offline
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Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:45 pm
Had a friend about 8 years ago hand prop his 1941 Aeronca near the fuel pumps, engine came to life and got away from him, ran over him twice, he was trying to stop it and finally hit a Cessna 172 with the pilot in side the plane, $40,000 damage. He sold the Aeronca 3 weeks later and didn't fly for a couple of years.
Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:23 pm
Crash
While looking over that site I found this. Whoa......
http://www.airvids.net/view/192/helicopter-whacks-hanger-on-takeoff/
http://www.airvids.net/view/192/helicopter-whacks-hanger-on-takeoff/
Yes, it was me.
Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:29 am
- patrol guy offline
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...remember, life is uncertain, eat desert first!
... and, those that pound their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.
... and, those that pound their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.
Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:46 am
I got my TW endorsment at Amelia Reid Aviation in a Champ. That was my first experience with hand propping. It was pretty scary at first. The CFI had very strict procedures that you did the same exact way every time. I thought it was pretty overkill at the time but after reading this thread I can see why he did it that way. Lake Berryessa where the pilotless champ flew is only about 15NM from my house. I fly up in those hills all the time.
Experimental Avid Flyer STOL 582 Rotax
Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:53 am
There is no doubt that hand propping an aircraft can have some additional risks, as noted above.
On the other hand, done CORRECTLY, hand propping can be done quite safely and is done pretty routinely by many aviators on a daily basis.
Finally, I consider knowing how to SAFELY hand prop your airplane in a pinch to be an absolutely essential skill set for anyone who ventures into the back country with an airplane.
If you haven't ever propped an airplane to start it, find someone who does it a LOT, and spend some time learning how to do so safely.
One day, you may find yourself in a situation where this could make your life a lot easier.
Just be sure you learn the RIGHT way to prop your airplane, and be careful.
MTV
On the other hand, done CORRECTLY, hand propping can be done quite safely and is done pretty routinely by many aviators on a daily basis.
Finally, I consider knowing how to SAFELY hand prop your airplane in a pinch to be an absolutely essential skill set for anyone who ventures into the back country with an airplane.
If you haven't ever propped an airplane to start it, find someone who does it a LOT, and spend some time learning how to do so safely.
One day, you may find yourself in a situation where this could make your life a lot easier.
Just be sure you learn the RIGHT way to prop your airplane, and be careful.
MTV
Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:15 am
Hand prop accident
I saw a guy kneeling in front of a Cherokee one day pulling the prop thru.I hollered and hustled over to him.Dead battery and he was trying to prop it!I took his battery out and charged it with my truck and had a little discussion about propping while we waited.
I may be wrong but I believe it is in violation of the FARs to prop without having received instruction in doing it.
Can you imagine if lawn mowers were hand propped.You know someone has done it and come out on the wrong end of it.
Bill
I may be wrong but I believe it is in violation of the FARs to prop without having received instruction in doing it.
Can you imagine if lawn mowers were hand propped.You know someone has done it and come out on the wrong end of it.
Bill
Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:23 pm
I met a guy once who hand propped. He put a banner tow hitch on his champ. Tied a loop on tie down ropes. That way he could start with more throttle and then got in and released his hitch and off he went.
- patrol guy offline
- Posts: 1749
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:52 pm
- Location: east of the river
...remember, life is uncertain, eat desert first!
... and, those that pound their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.
... and, those that pound their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.
Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:54 pm
Bob,
Do you have a reference to that FAR. I've never seen it, but it may exist.
For years I had a 90 hp J-3, with an Armstrong starter. I flew all over Kodiak Island with that thing, much of the time by myself, and started it many times. In fact, I really can't remember when I DID have someone I'd trust to man the controls.
MTV
Do you have a reference to that FAR. I've never seen it, but it may exist.
For years I had a 90 hp J-3, with an Armstrong starter. I flew all over Kodiak Island with that thing, much of the time by myself, and started it many times. In fact, I really can't remember when I DID have someone I'd trust to man the controls.
MTV
Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:32 pm
Re: Hand prop accident
Hand Prop went very bad!!
CAUTION! VERY GRAPHIC PHOTO! NOT FOR THE WEAK STOMACH'S!
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs259.snc6/180776_200273359988643_100000179410486_890754_8268011_n.jpg
I don't have any details. Found this on this Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=200273359988643&set=o.120640251308302#!/group.php?gid=120640251308302
CAUTION! VERY GRAPHIC PHOTO! NOT FOR THE WEAK STOMACH'S!
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs259.snc6/180776_200273359988643_100000179410486_890754_8268011_n.jpg
I don't have any details. Found this on this Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=200273359988643&set=o.120640251308302#!/group.php?gid=120640251308302
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