I think the discussion below the picture on facebook says that this is a boat prop, not an airplane. Regardless, hand propping is high-risk.

Story time: I helped a guy at my airfield hand prop his C-152 once. I called for a shot of prime. He primed it. I called for all switches off. He replied all switches off. I reconfirmed, he reconformed. I pulled the prop through once and the damn thing started on me. As I hopped back 30 feet cussing my head off, he came out of his plane saying "sorry, I forgot to take the keys out of the ignition." I inquired less-than-politely if he knew what "all switches off" meant.

Lessons learned:
-If you know the pilot is less than competent, stay away from his prop.
-If this is your first time propping a guy, brief the procedure and confirm switch positions.
-Always treat a prop like it's hot. I did and that saved my @$$.

If you need a cold example of how dangerous a prop is, read Max Conrad's story.

That is why I always stand on the other side of the prop, I don't understand why people star in front....
Might get run over but at least I'm clear of the prop.

Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk

If you haven't ever propped an airplane to start it, find someone who does it a LOT, and spend some time learning how to do so safely.

On the teaching side of that thought.....I am not going to 'teach' anyone how to prop a plane unless I KNOW they are savvy and very careful individuals.....too much responsibility....

I was taught ~4.5 decades ago and have propped quite a few aircraft.......do it to fly my J-3/PA11 regularly and do it by myself unless my passenger/fellow pilot is experienced and comfortable with the process. Usually I just have them hold the brakes, which I don't really need. I DO show them the throttle and how it works and how to shut it down but that is mostly so they are careful not to bump/push it.
I don't consider myself an expert. There are subtle to large differences in technique to use depending on the aircraft. I am NOT at all fond of propping large cu in nose draggers-they sit too low and my (personal) CG moves towards the 'meat cleaver' when I toss the prop. I don't recommend doing ND at all. That said, I have done them when it was the best option-Very carefully and then resolve not to do it again!

lc

[quote="Mongo"]That is why I always stand on the other side of the prop, I don't understand why people star in front....
Might get run over but at least I'm clear of the prop.[/quote]

You have a good point. The conventional technique (what most people learn) is in front. I'm going to find somebody that can show me this technique.

crazyivan wrote:I think the discussion below the picture on facebook says that this is a boat prop, not an airplane.

I'm kind of in doubt, too. But I sent the picture to my CSI friend (yes, a real one that works for the Orange County Sherrif Dept in SoCal). And this is her "opinion" just by looking at the picture.

based on the circumferential injury, it looks like a plane prop injury, based on the strike, it caused a "striated" injury which gives that "split skin" look.

Dad has had the cub start on him twice on the cub while hand propping with the switches in the "all off" position. First time was with the old rotary type switch....it had gone bad internally so we replaced it with the dual toggle setup. The second time was when my brother was in it. Dad confirmed mags off (My brother Brad has been flying for a while so when he says the switches are off, they are off) and it started....Once dad got out of the way of the prop he went around and sure enough, both mag switches were still off. Found out that the left switch went bad internally.

Point is, even when the switches are off, treat it like it is live.......We even make it a point to remove all the spark plug caps first thing whenever there is an airplane in the hanger for maintenance...

Brian.

crazyivan wrote:

Mongo wrote:That is why I always stand on the other side of the prop, I don't understand why people star in front....
Might get run over but at least I'm clear of the prop.

You have a good point. The conventional technique (what most people learn) is in front. I'm going to find somebody that can show me this technique.

Standing behind the prop works well on some planes, a J-3 comes to mind. But not so well on others, like the Aeronca 7AC. Problem with the Champ is the strut position, landing gear, and short cowl put you too close to the prop and the normal entry is from behind the struts. May be doable, but always felt real clumsy to me. Besides, the wood prop doesn't have a lot of enertia and my particular Champ did not have an impulse coupling, but did have good compression, so you really had to get a good swing on it. This was doable from the in front of the prop position, not so doable with the typical Cub "hold the strut with one hand while flipping the prop with the other hand" technique.

No such thing as an unloaded gun.
No such thing as a dead prop.

Both may be handled safely.
Both always require extreme caution.

No such thing as an unloaded gun.
No such thing as a dead prop.

Wisdom to 'live' by.......

lc

PS ....AND keep your brain on what you are doing......

A recent example of 'professional' getting 'bitten':
http://www.vcstar.com/news/2011/feb/04/ ... ge-secret/

I read through these posts to see if anyone caught this quote at the end of the article about the champ that flew to 12000 feet before running out of gas.

" ...Any takeoff the pilot can walk away from is a bad one."

I thought it was funny.

Brian - Steve's Aircraft wrote:Dad has had the cub start on him twice on the cub while hand propping with the switches in the "all off" position. First time was with the old rotary type switch....it had gone bad internally so we replaced it with the dual toggle setup. The second time was when my brother was in it. Dad confirmed mags off (My brother Brad has been flying for a while so when he says the switches are off, they are off) and it started....Once dad got out of the way of the prop he went around and sure enough, both mag switches were still off. Found out that the left switch went bad internally.

Point is, even when the switches are off, treat it like it is live.......We even make it a point to remove all the spark plug caps first thing whenever there is an airplane in the hanger for maintenance...

Brian.

For this very reason, our policy is that, just prior to every shutdown of an aircraft engine, we switch the mags to the "off" position momentarily to verify switch/P-lead function. Better to find out THEN, and get it fixed, than to have someone pre-flighting find out....

I believe everyone should build this into their shutdown procedures.

MTV

I don't switch to off, but I do a low rpm (1000) mag check, this will eventually pay off by finding a bad mag at the end of a flight instead of the beginning of another.
I hate getting ready to fly just to find a bad mag.

Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk

Yes, Mike, It WAS worth saying it twice........

lc

Now if I can retrain this old dog.....

There was a recent report of a runaway hand-propped C182 at Orcas island in Washington running into a hangar & causing quite a bit of damage. Bummer. Quite likely someone with little to no handpropping experience.

I don't like propping the Stinson, engine too big and heavy to swing the prop from behind, it takes a real good pull and both arms to get it to pop over, (no impulse) without kicking back. When standing in front the bottom of the prop disc is a lot further forward than the top of the disc so your feet and legs are real close to the food processor. Be very careful. And yes it is quite common for many light planes to have a creeping throttle.

By the way, how the H do you prop a seaplane? The floats are too far apart on most to get the right position, i read of one guy who had a 180 with dead batt, he built some sort of platform accross the front of the floats to stand on, got it started and charged the batt. then shut down and tore apart his platform, re started and went home.

shorton,

Well, my first floatplane was a 90 hp J-3, and it didn't have an electrical system. Every start was via Armstrong. No problems...easiest starting little engine there is...till it's warm, and you haven't paid close attention to what it likes to start. Then, your right arm gets a workout.

I've propped Super Cubs, Huskys, Scouts, Pacer, C-170, C-172, C-180, etc all on floats, and from behind. And, I'm 5' 8", and no--I'm not built like an orangutan.

I like propping from behind MUCH better than from in front.

MTV

Here is another MANDATORY (yet common sense) 'rule' to 'live by' that has not been stressed:
No mater WHERE you are 'tossing the prop' from(front, back, or side), it is imperative that you have good solid footing/traction! NO wet grass, or frost, or snow, or wet leather soled shoes, or oily tarmac, etc. That was the first thing stressed to me when I was taught-and that does NOT vary with airplane configuration, or engine size, or where YOU stand to do it.
Really an excellent concept anytime you are near within slippin' distance of a moving propeller!

lc


PS Treat them all like they are 'loaded'!

I tried to hand prop my 182TW last week and could not get it to fire. I tried to talk the other pilot into the dirty work, he says........I'll hold the brakes.

My C180s I always found easier to handprop from behind. Especially if there's a hand-hold on the cowling. Makes it real solid when you reach forward to pull the prop down.

Gump

This guy actually managed to get every bit of it wrong, except for remembering to turn on the mags.