ELSA and EAB flown under light sport rules are two different things. Unless I'm not understanding what you are trying to say.

Maybe the confusion is coming from some thinking that a plane must be certifified and registered either SLSA or ELSA to be flown under Sport Pilot Rules. It does not.

The plane's maximum takeoff weight, stall speed, speed under maximum continuous power, equipment installed, and more are what determines if it can be flown under sport pilot rules. Not what class it is registered under.

I just want to be sure people don't get the idea that their plane's registration will kick them out of the Sport Pilot Rules.

The two to watch out for on adding the turbo to LSA is the SLSA which is fully built by a manufacture as a flying aircraft and the ELSA kits which are the cloned kits of the same planes from the manufacturer but finished by the builder. I was not clear on this point myself and is the reason that I asked for clarification from the EAA. (Included in the email I provided from them in my previous post.) Other types of LSA planes are good to go with the turbo or other equipment as long as they comply with the general rules stated as LSA and as tcj has stated above. But across all the LSA types, which includes qualifying EAB's, the answer to the turbo question is: It depends. (On which LSA you have.)

Gary there was a Rans or a highlander I forget which at caveman last year with the 914.
Really seemed to climb and preform well.
I talked with the owner and it was lsa.

The engine in my new Highlander started out as a 100hp 912s. While it was brand new it was taken partially apart and the pistons were cut down to get 9 to 1 compression, same as the 80hp 912 and the 914. The heads were ported and the pistons, heads and valves were ceramic coated for cooling efficiancy. They were all cc'd to make sure each combustion chamber was exactly the same. The main reason it makes more power than a 914 is that the 912s has about 150cc more size from the 4.5mm larger bore than the 912 and 914. My motor is supposed to be about 140hp. I've flown a lot of hours in these planes and this motor of mine is by far my favorite of any I've flown with yet. Taking off and climbing out will put a big grin on your face. Flying alone with 3 or 4 hours worth of fuel my usual take off roll is about 2 - 4 seconds.

Steve
http://www.wildwestaircraft.com/

Steve
If you sent them an engine, what would the mods cost to get that performance/grin? Have they done enough of these to see if reliability is effected?
Thanks gary

Steve any idea how this will affect the longevity or wear on the engine? Sound fantastic, very jealous! Do you have any net weight data, ie how much weight was gained thru the addition of equipment on your motor over stock weight? ~CRAZED

It weighs the same as a 914. The guy who did my motor is a distributor for Rotax and he teachs classes on them etc. He knows rotax engines! He said I still have a recommended 2000 hour TBO.
Steve

How about the cost?
Thanks Gary

Looking at Steve's website gives me a serious case of Highlander envy. Fold the wings and stuff that bad boy in a 28' enclosed snowmobile trailer and put behind the truck to Alaska or anywhere else. Talk about IFR! Get rid of the hangar, FAA Aeromedical Division, IA annual inspections and oh yes...EAPIS could kiss my ass as well.

Anybody want to trade one for a Cessna and a hangar?

gb

Gary, They cost in the lower to mid $30k's. He gets the turbo kit from Bullyhawk, which is identical to a 914 turbo from Rotax, but it keeps the cost lower somehow. I bought a new 912s for around $21k, the turbo kit for $8k, and then he did a few thousand $ of porting, ceramic coating, etc.

Steve
Wild West Aircraft

Gb, I can sell you a kit and help you get over that envy!

Hey Gary - one thing to keep in mind with Ronnie's mod is that he is doing it on later model motors that have some beefier cases (or cranks, or both, I forget).

But what you might consider if you wan't some more altitude performance, is finding a good low time 80hp 912, and turboing it with the Bullyhawk kit. That will essentially give you a 914. You could sell your 912S to finance. The S7 on a 914 is still a rocketship. That's what I'd like to do.

Call or go see Mark Pringle at West Desert Airpark in Fairfield, UT. He's got a lot of 914 in S7's experience and is the Rans dealer. He just did the above to his plane. Found a very low time 80hp for like $2500 bucks! Not typical, but they are out there. I would talk to a salvage company and try to buy a motor off a wreck.

Steve, curious - does Ronnie's deal void the factory warranty?

taildrgfun wrote:It weighs the same as a 914. The guy who did my motor is a distributor for Rotax and he teachs classes on them etc. He knows rotax engines! He said I still have a recommended 2000 hour TBO.
Steve

I have been wanting to take a Rotax school. There are several, which one does this guy teach?

His name is Ronnie Smith and his business phone is 601-947-4953.

taildrgfun wrote:His name is Ronnie Smith and his business phone is 601-947-4953.

Thanks.

"But what you might consider if you wan't some more altitude performance, is finding a good low time 80hp 912, and turboing it with the Bullyhawk kit. That will essentially give you a 914."

I am thinking about doing this, find a good S7, Kitfox, 701, etc with an 80hp 912 and if I'm satisfied with the plane "Bullyhawk'ing" it for some decent DA performance.

There doesn't seem to be much feedback from the Bullyhawk kit though ?

The Bullyhawk meets or exceeds the rotax specs from what I've read. Contact Ronnie or Mark Pringle at Rocky Mt Kit planes. He just did this to his personal S7.

Bully hawk kits are the exact same thing as Rotax, it is Rotax parts.
That would be a less expensive way to get a 914 if you can find a good 80hp.

Kaptain_K wrote:"But what you might consider if you wan't some more altitude performance, is finding a good low time 80hp 912, and turboing it with the Bullyhawk kit. That will essentially give you a 914."

I am thinking about doing this, find a good S7, Kitfox, 701, etc with an 80hp 912 and if I'm satisfied with the plane "Bullyhawk'ing" it for some decent DA performance.

There doesn't seem to be much feedback from the Bullyhawk kit though ?

I like more power as much as anybody but have never felt hampered in flying around Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.....just saying. The stock 912S in my S-7S gets the job done just fine. I felt a need to say this for some thinking the performance was sorely lacking if not turboed, not so!

Having said that, the first time I get left in the dust behind a fellow S-7 pilot with a turbo (not to mention a constant speed prop, the next little accessory a lot of the turbo'd guys have, and after my recent little misadventure with a lost left brake line that resulted in ONLY a $300.00 prop blade, I was really happy not to have one of those pricey items) it will probably be time to check the account balance in the flying fund and man up In the meantime I console myself with the thought that none of the abovementioned performance mods will help one iota when LANDING in the tight spots, (though BETA pitch is an option on the Airmaster I'm told?)! It will also be enlightening to see what the fuel burn difference will be when performing similar missions (NOT at altitude, but low level, JC to Dixie for breakfast with a stop at Mile Hi for instance) in similar craft, one turboed and one not. Maybe the turbo will be less or the same, maybe more, don't know....any indications so far there Steve? The maintenance issues are the next thing: the same or more? Especially with the gearbox perhaps, don't know, just guessing. Just looking for a reason not to spend more money, add weight and complexity

What year model of engines are good for this conversion? I guess what I am asking is when did Rotax start 'beefing' up the crankcase. I know of a 912 that can be bought reasonably attached to a Kitfox. I think it is mid 90's vintage.