I recently sold my 185 to a good friend. The first thing he is doing is getting the Sportsman STOL and WingX that I installed painted. It's looking really sharp. If we are lucky he will post some pictures here.

So now I'm on the hunt for a Helio. Essentially I know nothing about them other then I love their looks, love their slats, love their interior space, love their huge prop, and of course love their takeoff speed. I ordered a book from Amazon that is on its way.

I know they use the GO480 engine (at least some models) which is why they can swing the big prop.

I know they have a pass-thru spar AD.

And I know there are some Helio owners and drivers here. And that's pretty much what I know.

So those in the know help me out please. What else should I know? Which model is the most desirable form a STOL perspective (not counting the Super Stallion of course).

Thanks in advance.

Send me a message and we can open the full can of worms associated with Helios.

I love mine and would go that route again! It is a truly amazing airplane but there are certainly some things to look out for so send me a pm an we can get into details.

Helio295 wrote:Send me a message and we can open the full can of worms associated with Helios.

I love mine and would go that route again! It is a truly amazing airplane but there are certainly some things to look out for so send me a pm an we can get into details.

Thanks. Sent.

I have a handful of hours in a Helio H-250.

This is the plane:



It is here in central Oregon, and you could probably pick it up well below market value.

The H250 is a lot like the H-395, except for it has a 250 hp Lycoming direct Drive 540. I think that the geared engines work better with the airframe, but you may be able to do a one time STC or field approval on a 300 horse Lycoming on the H250, which would probably perform decently.

My impressions based on my limited experience:

I like the utility and low speed handling characteristics of the Helio, but I don't like flying them nearly as much as the Skywagon.
They are heavy on the controls and handle sluggishly.
The main landing gear feels weird and does not give the pilot positive feedback.
The mains are so far forward that the tailwheel must support a super high load.
The plane is long and the vertical is very tall, so they have crosswind limits beyond those of more common tailwheel airplanes.
They are very difficult to move around on soft ground by yourself or with a single helper.
It's a great plane for getting a job done. Less great for pleasure flying.

If you send me a PM, I will put you in touch with the president of the Helio Aircraft Association. He lives in Texas and is a wealth of Helio knowledge.

Helio295 wrote:Send me a message and we can open the full can of worms associated with Helios.

I love mine and would go that route again! It is a truly amazing airplane but there are certainly some things to look out for so send me a pm an we can get into details.

I would love to see this information out in the open. Can you share here in this thread? Better yet, why not write down what you know for our knowledge base on aircraft types? That would be awesome.

"My impressions based on my limited experience:

I like the utility and low speed handling characteristics of the Helio, but I don't like flying them nearly as much as the Skywagon.
They are heavy on the controls and handle sluggishly.
The main landing gear feels weird and does not give the pilot positive feedback.
The mains are so far forward that the tailwheel must support a super high load.
The plane is long and the vertical is very tall, so they have crosswind limits beyond those of more common tailwheel airplanes.
They are very difficult to move around on soft ground by yourself or with a single helper. "


Looks like you might want to look into buying your 185 back.

This will be very interesting to watch. I've always been intrigued by the Helio. I looked a tricycle gear Helio over last weekend, my first time seeing one in person. Easy to see why the controls feel heavy.

Maybe this thread is worth a read: https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/helio-courier-605

Good luck!

Thanks whee

G44 wrote:"My impressions based on my limited experience:

I like the utility and low speed handling characteristics of the Helio, but I don't like flying them nearly as much as the Skywagon.
They are heavy on the controls and handle sluggishly.
The main landing gear feels weird and does not give the pilot positive feedback.
The mains are so far forward that the tailwheel must support a super high load.
The plane is long and the vertical is very tall, so they have crosswind limits beyond those of more common tailwheel airplanes.
They are very difficult to move around on soft ground by yourself or with a single helper. "


Looks like you might want to look into buying your 185 back.

I forgot to mention my favorable observations as well, like:
The main landing gear is very strong, as is the tailwheel.
The fuselage structure would protect the occupants well in a crash
The cabin is very roomy
The cabin access is great
They are very unique and offer a great feel from the pilot's seat
It will cross the threshold unbelievably slowly and stop short
The flaps are huge and produce heaps of lift
It will turn tighter than anything near its size

Didn't mean to be down on the sweet ship.

They appear to fare pretty well in CFIT scenarios:

Some casual thoughts

The Helio is probably he safest GA plane out there and certainly the safest STOL airplane ever made. The plane is a steel tube cage wrapped in aluminum sheeting. Think race-car style crash cage. It also will not spin and is technically unable to stall. Add into that the ability to cross the threshold nice and slow makes for great safety. Similarly if you have to ditch it some where it can be brought in incredibly slowly, coupled with that gear really far forward and the odds of a nose over or of it flipping onto is back is pretty small. Lots of benefits there.

It is a heavy beast and is a bit of a pain in the back side to push over uneven or soft ground. It also has pretty long wing so putting it in a standard hangar can get interesting.

I will out perform pretty much any Cessna ever made off the ground and then back down. I don't know how a 550 powered 185 with wing-x and a Robertson kit performs....but I would still put my money on a H395 or H295 (Flown by a competent Helio driver that is). The 185 will be significantly faster at the same fuel burn though. Figure a -480 powered Helios on 29" bush wheels is about 12.5 gph at 125 mph.

There is an STC to convert the H250 to a 300hp IO-540. I hear it is an improvement. But it still wont compare with a GO-480 powered H295/H395. The GO-480 powered motor turning a 96" prop produces some serious thrust ~1600lbs. You will never get that from a IO-540 regardless how fast you spin it or what prop you put on it.

The controls are not harmonized really very well, elevator is pretty sensitive, but the ailerons are delightful. They are not a Pitts but the controls are certainly not sluggish either.

I have a Helio and I would not trade it for anything!

Maybe it was mentioned before, why did it hit the trees? Too big a load? Power issue? Very impressive crashworthiness!

Ok, I'm going to open the can of worms for discussion here. First let me say that I like the Courier and wanted to buy one before I bought my wagon. There are a couple of issues that caused me great deliberation before I turned away to the 185.

Parts? -It isn't exactly like you get parts real easy. Ya, I know that a few peeps have hoarded away and sometimes will share, but not like you can just call up a warehouse and get them. Yes you can still get parts for the gear driven Lycs, but the supply is drying up and big $$$$$$$. My Wigeon buddies are buying up a lot of old spare motors for parts. - You know what they say about Courier owners. They're first on the scene of a crash to scavange the wreck.-LOL;-)

Center section spar issues. - As the airframes age, issues with the spar carrythrough are surfacing. There have been a few hull losses concerning this issue.

Let the debate begin!

G44 wrote:Maybe it was mentioned before, why did it hit the trees? Too big a load? Power issue? Very impressive crashworthiness!

Note the water. Ran out of headwind and it was gusty as they approached the tall trees along the shore. Maybe even some downward airflow rolling over the trees at the end. Plane appears to settle just before contact. I wonder how much lake they left behind at the start of takeoff?

Plane was dirty...slats still out but almost at retract speed plus flaps down and of course floats. When you can't accelerate or climb something's got to give..if it's altitude or reduced lift configuration to increase airspeed then these things happen. Who knows about the load, however with hunters...

Never flown one but have ridden in them and visited with experienced pilots. They apparently can fly dirty but may not out climb rising terrain or vegetation when configured for high lift and drag.

Gary

Wont argue with anyone on the parts issues. Some things are hard to find, but there are people out there withy most things. Also there is precious little on the plane that can't be fabricated pretty easily as 'owner manufactured'. But the truth is that there is a limited parts supply. As owners we are working on it and trying, but with out the type certs it is difficult. Some day we hope to have a better situation, but until then it is working together and keeping them in the air.

I am not sure I agree with the spar/carry through issues. That one is heated, in discussion and heat-treated during manufacture, and there is a good reason for most of the accidents attributed as failure. Most any plane has issues flying into thunder storms

There is no way that plane wasn't approaching gross in that crash. 4 big boys, fuel, floats, hunting gear, a moose? I would imagine a good light weight H395 on floats probably has a useful of 1200-1400lbs (for a really light one with the high gross kit). Float flyers on Helios often talk about flying with more flap than slat. Lowers the angle of attack on take-off and keeps the floats a little faster. But I don't fly floats so I cant speak from first hand experience. On wheels I use both flaps and slats to break ground and then bring in the slats before flaps and it seems to work quite well. I do know that when light on wheels I break ground fastest with 40 degrees of flaps. I use 30 degrees for all other takeoffs unless I am really loaded, then I back it off to 20. Flaps look to be at 20 or less in the post crash photo. That sink there could also have been from trying to bring the flaps in a bit too soon. They really stop climbing at low speed with out flaps! Probably takes 1500 feet to break ground when light if you forget your flaps!

Helio is an interesting line of birds, a bud of mine rebuilt a Stallion but that is another story. Personally, I would get one only as a second airplane, if you needed to use it regularly. The owner of the the Type Certificate lives here in Flagstaff. Don't bet on him making any parts any time soon, I know him.

If you want serious short field performance and the ability to haul a load, albeit a bit slower, but not by much, far more maintainable. Get a Hiller 12E. It has the advantage of being able to land on a trailer or a boat and you can trailer it across the country and not put any time on the airframe. Don't think the hello can do that. Soon, in the absence of parts, the only way they will get it into the sky is on top of a pole at the entrance to the airport. I don't think the Helio can sling your travel trailer to the top of a mesa so you can camp there. The Hiller can and it is easy to fly and maintainable with a hammer, nice Lycoming 540 and simple dynamics. For awesome short field, fast and super maneuverable get a Huge 500C, best one they ever built and runs on kerosene, not as maintainable as the Hiller, but fast and cheap as well.

dogpilot wrote:Helio is an interesting line of birds, a bud of mine rebuilt a Stallion but that is another story. Personally, I would get one only as a second airplane, if you needed to use it regularly. The owner of the the Type Certificate lives here in Flagstaff. Don't bet on him making any parts any time soon, I know him.

If you want serious short field performance and the ability to haul a load, albeit a bit slower, but not by much, far more maintainable. Get a Hiller 12E. It has the advantage of being able to land on a trailer or a boat and you can trailer it across the country and not put any time on the airframe. Don't think the hello can do that. Soon, in the absence of parts, the only way they will get it into the sky is on top of a pole at the entrance to the airport. I don't think the Helio can sling your travel trailer to the top of a mesa so you can camp there. The Hiller can and it is easy to fly and maintainable with a hammer, nice Lycoming 540 and simple dynamics. For awesome short field, fast and super maneuverable get a Huge 500C, best one they ever built and runs on kerosene, not as maintainable as the Hiller, but fast and cheap as well.

The Hughes 500F had a little more HP and a little more rotor authority... I agree, great short field performance!

Jim

I think the Hiller is a bit short on range though. Other down side to one of those is the inability to use it access hunting or fishing places....legally that is.

Parts will be an issue at some point in the ever nearing future for some parts that point is upon us. Shame that Maytag isn't getting into the parts game, he was so close with Sierra Industries back in 2008.

If you are looking at a Helio call Eli with Nelles Aviation Technologies in Fairbanks. He is the DM for Wright Air Service( a specialist in Helios). Eli does consulting and has done a lot of Helio work. You would be well served by getting the poop from the largest Helio operator and parts, fabrication, and maintainer.
Mike

There is a guy in Northern BC who does nothing but Helios. I will get you contact details.

daedaluscan wrote:There is a guy in Northern BC who does nothing but Helios. I will get you contact details.

If you're thinking of Jim Danish it's 250-699-6392.
I had a hard look at a Helio 391B myself. Neat plane. When I asked the guy about crosswind landings he said it there's enough crosswind to be a problem then it's enough wind to take as a headwind and basically spot land the plane. He said he regularly landed on the width of the runway at Whitehorse. He noted that the GO-435 used the same jugs as the 0-290 so that helped a bit with rebuilds although not sure about the legalities. The GO-480 enjoys a little better parts support and if it uses the same jugs as the 0-320 you'd be set engine wise.