Split from Airglas thread... -Zzz
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Not to hijack the thread, but I picked up some Aero 3000’s for my 170B (have the Atlee Dodge ski tabs installed a couple of years ago), currently working on re UHMWing the bottoms. They came off a Scout and has Scout rigging with the Atlee Dodge silver springs. I contacted Aeroskis and got the STC, but trying to decide if I should buy rigging through them (bungees) or have some made and use the already provided AD springs.

Opinion on best course of action? Where can I find the the lengths and specs for ski rigging on the Aeros?

Appreciate the help.

Edit: new to ski flying.


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Talk to Shawn Holly at High Country Aviation. He is the local (AK) dealer for them. He will get you pointed in the right direction.
907-398-4975
http://www.highcountryaviation.net/

Altee Dodge does a great job on the plastic, if you’re wanting to hire that part out.
I have the same plane and skis, BTW. Always been happy with my bungees. If you haven’t gotten a tail ski yet, I highly recommend the Burl’s Magnum over the Aero tail ski.

X2 on the Burl's Tail ski.

Whats the burls going for now? Does he make one that fits the baby bushwheel?

Thanks

My advice on skis for what it is worth.
Keep the AD springs, Sun, oil, fuel, and cold won't bother them, mount close to cowling not ski. Plastic is easy, cut a bit oversize, start drilling and bolts from the center and work out to both ends, trim for perfect edge with router and cutoff bit. Use stainless steel screws and nuts WITH ANTI-SEIZE or they cold weld and hard to remove replace if needed. Plastic skegs not metal. Tail ski is pretty much a must in a 170. Put them on and go see Don Lee for a few hours, it will save you a lot of heartache.
DENNY

1st, thank you for moving the post to a more appropriate thread.

2nd, thanks for all the input:

AKgreg; I have been in contact with Shawn a bit. I picked up my Aeros used.

Denalipilot; A buddy who has re uhmw his skis, is helping me. The skis I picked up had the 1/4” plastic on the bottom and riveted in. So far we have removed all the rivets and putting 3/16 black uhmw with about 2” over run and removed the metal skeg and will have three 1/4” uhmw skegs. I have been looking for a used Burls, new they are $950.

Tom; $950 at Reeves, any I do believe so.

Denny; I’ve heard both cases for bungees and springs. A buddy is helping me with the re uhmw and we are going 3/16” black uhmw with about 2” over run and three 1/4” uhmw skegs. Counter sinking and using stainless steel screws. Nice call on the anti-seize, will pick that up. Looking for a used Burl tailski, and have heard that they 170 needs them. I like the idea of instruction, also going flying with folks to help me out as well.


Where I am at now, is trying to figure the specs for the rigging as to get the right lengths. I could buy the set from Aeroski, but they are ~$500 plus shipping. Trying to figure out if they can be made at a better price. Then I need to get with my mechanic or a mechanic that is knowledgeable in ski rigging. Not sure what that all takes. I have read a bit of the FAA 43.xxx ski stuff.

What am I missing? Thanks for the replies, keep the tips and tricks coming.


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Wldlndfirefghtr wrote:Denalipilot; A buddy who has re uhmw his skis, is helping me. The skis I picked up had the 1/4” plastic on the bottom and riveted in. So far we have removed all the rivets and putting 3/16 black uhmw with about 2” over run and removed the metal skeg and will have three 1/4” uhmw skegs.

What am I missing? Thanks for the replies, keep the tips and tricks coming.


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Sounds like you're on this already: having the nuts and the bolt ends from the plastic install, topside on the skis, is a real benefit as far as traction when you inevitably step on the skis during ground handling. By themselves, the metal ski tops can get really slippery in certain conditions/ footwear.
It's been years, but I believe my rigging was made up at Atlee Dodge, IIRC.

p.s. I also have about 2" of over run, except at the tips where it is tapered close to the metal. That has been a great setup.

p.p.s. If you decide to go with bungees, be sure to incorporate "crust-cutter" cables for the bottom foot or so of the bungee-to-ski connection.

Cheers,
-DP

Flew Aero 3000's for years on a Super Cub and PA-12. Good skis for some applications but can wear from hard use and rough terrain more than Landes 2500's or board skis. Don't know about the newer carbon fiber products. I have Aero 2000's on my Taylorcraft.

Typical wear spots to monitor are the imbedded skeg nuts, gear attach pedestal to tunnel rivets, and tunnel to bottom rivets. Pay particular attention to the tunnel to bottom ski tab locations front and back for cracking. They can crack the tunnel between the hole and tunnel end due to any over clamping action of the bolts (?) and stepping on the bottom near the tunnel and flexing that connection.

Try to avoid flexing the forward bottom ahead of the front ski tab. If you pry the ski up to install a block underneath to prevent freezing down get the pry board under the skeg and not the ski's edge if possible to prevent over-flexing of that component.

One op thing to watch for is getting the tail too high or running over moguls. That can stress the rear limit cable so keep an eye on the thimbles for stretching or the nicopress copper fitting for cable slippage. And as Mike suggests pick the frame mount location for best angles for the front cables.

There are over centering ski lift devices available that allow for repositioning the plane and prevent frost formation on the bottoms when lifted. I have a set and they work as advertised:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sA31LAbcQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SBtb3y5FxI

Gary

You're going to have to have a mechanic sign off the initial installation in any case. I'd find a mechanic who really knows ski installations, and have him or her make up rigging to fit your plane. That way you can get the skis rigged the way you want them.

A couple of examples:

I really like the forward limit cables attached to the firewall, to the lower engine mount attach points. Many folks attach them to the top of the landing gear, but the firewall offers a much better pull geometry, and allows for shorter cables and more slack in the limit cable.

I also like skis rigged fairly flat, as opposed to nose up. Some installers rig them 5 or even 7 degrees nose up, with reference to the underside of the wing. To me, that's too much toe up. I like One degree or close.

If you already have springs, keep them and install them. They'll last forever, and cold doesn't affect them. If you had bungees, and they were in good shape, I'd keep them too.

I once bought a set of Aero 3000 skis from Aero. They came with springs, not bungees. My mechanic installed them, and signed off the installation on a 337, accompanied by the STC. The FAA got on his case, and threatened legal action because the springs weren't noted (approved) on the STC, specifically. We managed to get that BS settled down eventually, but the mechanic had to add a deviation from the provisions of the STC to the effect that springs were installed in lieu of bungees. So, check your STC paperwork carefully, and make sure your mechanic signs off the deviation if it's still not included on the STC.

Same goes for location of the attachment points for the forward limit cables. The STC may call out attachment to the top of main gear. If so, I'd attach to lower engine mount bolts, but again, have the mechanic specify this as a deviation from the provisions of the STC.

Have fun, and do get some dual if you can. It may save you a lot of angst, and some big $$$

MTV

Awesome guys thanks for the additional info.

PA1195; Getting the bottom UHMW off for replacement, I’ll give them a close inspection. Overall the skis are in great shape. Thanks for the tips and areas to look at. I need to find some of those dollies!

MTV; the ski attachment points I believe are what you are describing. Two attachment points at the lower cowling/firewall, the triangular attachment up on the upper cowling/firewall and the rear attach points (I had these installed a few years ago, they are the Atlee Dodge ones). Great info and planning on flying with folks that have more ski experience before venturing out in my own.


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You may already have but if not will need some sort of anti-slip material over spots you're likely to stand on. I've used paint with sand mixed in and adhesive anti-skid tape strips. I put it on top of the pedestal, tunnel, and sometimes on the top of the ski's bottom next to the tunnel. All it takes is a strip wide enough to catch a boot bottom as the factory paint is typically slippery. It's hard to avoid them when refueling or loading gear.

If for some reason the rear safety cable disconnects in flight (rare but has happened) the front of the ski will rise up and contact the lift strut on some planes. It can be pushed forward and lowered with the help of a foot or whatever out the door, or by gently contacting the runway with the extended ski tail and rolling it forward. It did happen to the last owner of mine and he was able to roll it forward with just a little scratching to the ski's tail. Source was a poor nicopress fit I was told.

Gary

When going oversize I would give the same advice for fitting plastic. Cut it oversize and trim with router. My Dewalt is 2in from base plate to bit so trimming is painless.
If you get on Ice and try to taxi you will get moving fast. Go to one mag and pull carb heat early before you build speed. You won't have brakes to help turn so don't feel bad about getting out and pushing the tail around if other planes/buildings around.
DENNY

Gary; the skis came with anti slip tape all over the tops.

Denny: Great tips! Thanks!


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Wldlndfirefghtr wrote:Gary; the skis came with anti slip tape all over the tops.

You're not quite done. Put some tape or paint with sand on the top of the pedestal above the axle. If using tape split the edges to allow it to roll over the top. You will eventually stand on that pedestal top climbing or descending intentionally or otherwise. After slipping a few times it'll become obvious what needs to be.

Have fun,

Gary

Ahhhh... I see where you are talking...copy, will do.


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Another "watch it" for Aero skis is water. If it collects near the tunnel on top of the bottom surface from melting or if they're parked flat in water (ponded or overflow on ice) it can seep inside the tunnel. Once there it stays and adds weight until they're tipped up or lifted. The lowest skeg fasteners can be removed from the threaded holes in the bottom when above freezing. I've had it pour out near the rear rigging fastener just by lifting the ski nose some like with those tire dollys.

I suspect it comes in via any gaps in the tunnel to bottom contact area or via the skeg fasteners. I did seal the fasteners with RTV and it helped but never have laid a bead of caulk around the tunnel edge yet.

Gary

Nice looking skis! From the picture it looks like the usual rivet overkill. I would space the screws every other hole on the long run.
DENNY

Check out chapter 5. it should help out.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2043.13-2B.pdf

Denny: There are 104 on each ski....drilling them out was ..... therapeutic [emoji38]. A buddy is getting me all lined out and helping me in the process.

TangoFox: Been reviewing that document.


Next question:

Currently have solid aluminum axles on my 170. Have some hollow steel axles that came off an early model 180 (can’t remember the part #). Do I swap them out? It looks like I’ll have to do something with the axles to get them to fit on the skis, there’s a collar on the axles. How I understand it, I need to lathe them down, then when I swap back to wheels, have a slip on collar for the wheel to fit again.


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