As every CFI says "keep your feet off the brakes". I own a Maule M-7 180 tricycle and put 800 hours on it without any problems. Last year i bought a beautiful 235 M-7 tailwheel and became fairly good at three points which is Maule's only landing recommendation.

A friend suggested i must learn wheel landings and as you guessed i ran this beautiful plane through a 20,000 year old eight foot high creosol bush. I landed on the mains, brought the tail wheel down and notice i was slightly crooked on this california dirt strip. I hit right rudder and for the "first time ever" i experienced zero rudder authority! A second later the bush was in my windshield.

No one was hurt but $65,000 damage to the plane made for a bad day. Since this accident I have experienced four other crooked roll outs but tapping the correct brake has saved my bacon. High speed differential braking is never taught by CFI's. This note is a heads up to those "new" to tail wheel planes and the dangerous potential for lack of rudder authority on roll out..Garv.

Garv,

I like Wheel Landings in Maules, as opposed to three point.

If I were to take your description of the accident landing as written, though, it doesn't sound as if you actually DID a proper wheel landing.

You stated that you touched down on the mains then lowered the tail. That can be a recipe for disaster.

In a wheel landing, you should touch on the mains and push the nose down to level the wings, and kill all lift, putting all the weight of the airplane on the main wheels.

Wheel landings can be done at virtually any speed, but I prefer fairly slow, tail low wheel landings. Touch the mains, push the yoke to kill lift, put the weight of the plane on the mains, and steer with the rudders. As the airplane decelerates, elevator effectiveness lessens, and the tail will start coming down. Once the tail starts coming down, you need to PULL the yoke all the way to the aft stop, to pin the tailwheel on the ground. You are now steering with the tailwheel, as opposed to the rudder. The tailwheel, therefore, must be firmly planted on the ground, and not floating.

If you just let the tail come down right after a wheel landing, you increase the angle of attack on the wing, which increases lift, which takes weight off the mains, and the tailwheel, not pinned down, will be light and it will be virtually useless for steering. The rudder is low, and blanketed somewhat by the flaps and fuselage, and it too will be essentially useless. You need either an effective rudder OR a firmly planted tailwheel to steer.

In MOST wheel landings, you should NOT have to use differential braking. If you feel you are having to use differential braking, I strongly suggest you get some dual instruction in wheel landings from a very experienced Maule pilot.

Let me emphasize: If you feel you have to use differential braking for many wheel landings, you really need to evaluate your technique.


MTV

Garv, be it far from me to say that you do (or don't) need additional training. But if you decide you do, there's a local (Puget Sound) guy who does a lot of tailwheel training. George Kirkish on Vashon Island mainly trains in J3's (I think he owns two) but he also flies (& trains in) a Maule.
[email protected] www.island-air.com
Personally, I think this is the kind of thing where you get taught the basics, then it's kinda up to you to practice & figure out what works best for you. Of course, your incident with that creosote bush would indicate that you're still in that "figuring out" phase-- no offense.

Eric

From Sparky Imeson's site:

Swerving

If a pilot fails to recognize the beginning of a swerve in time to make a normal correction with rudder usage, the application of the brake may also be needed to straighten the plane.

When a swerve starts, some pilots have frantically reduced the power to idle, determined to straighten and stop the plane.

If the aircraft speed is slower than that required for the rudder to be effective, reduce power to idle and pull back on the control wheel to place weight on the tail wheel for more effective steering. Use the rudder, brakes and ailerons as required to regain control of the ground track.

When the airplane has accelerated to a speed where the rudder is effective in controlling the airplane and a swerve develops, it is usually best to leave the power on. The airplane is more controllable with power because there is a blast of air over the rudder.

The humble tailwheel pilot will always land with his tail between his legs...

Mark

My buddy Jim got signed off for his tailwheel endorsement in his Maule M5-210 and the instructor did not teach wheel landings and told him not to do them. I am no CFI but I said BS! and offered to show him what works for me. In less than 1 hr Jim was greasing it on. Like Mike V says tail low then push fwd to kill the lift and plant the mains. Hold it until the tail starts to drop then pull and hold it down. If you try to fly the plane on wings level you will be touching down much faster than needed for most situations and eat up a ton of runway. If you touch down mains first, tail low and hold that pitch attitude you now have reduced directional control authority AND reduced visibility. If you find you tend to bounce 3 point landings the usual cause is to high of a landing speed and not enough flare. I highly recommend sitting at the end of a busy GA airport runway, especially one with a flight school, and study TO/LDG techniques.

Jason
N3673T

Who in the hell is the moron instructor giving a tailwheel sign off without teaching ALL of the techniques neccessary to land a tailwheel airplane? Someone should pull his ability to sign off that particular aspect. That is setting us all up for insurance failure!

After reading this thread, sounds like I don't know how land a tailwheeled plane. What works for me is to have my heals on the rudders and the pads of my feet on the brakes. I can work the rudder but I depend on the brakes for positive, effective directional control. Works for me and I guess thats the main thing. Great weather for flying in the last week in Colo. Gary

Garv;
The problem with wheel landings is that many instructors don't understand them and have no idea how to teach them. 14CFR 61.31 (i) requires Wheel landings "unless the manufacturer has recommended against such landings". Maule not recommending them is not recommending against them. So your tailwheel sign-off would not be good in a Maule unless you were properly trained. "Keep your feet off the brakes" (Heals on the floor etc.) is for the approach so you won't touch down with the brakes on. There are situations where differential breaking is used but not at high speed. Tailwheel airplanes were designed for Grass runways not pavement. If they had brakes they were ineffective or heel activated and hard to use. When modern hydraulic tow brakes are installed on these airplanes they usually end up on their nose in a soft field.

I could go on as I do in our tailwheel training manual. I suggest that you
get a copy of "The Complete Taildragger Pilot" by Harvey S. Plourde. It is available from Muguette B. Plourde 5 Hermsdorf Ave. Goffstown, NH. 03045. A better understanding of the forces that you are dealing with will help you cope with them.

Dave From O'Regon
The Flying No Spin Zone

Hey Shortfielder
I see you went flying the other day in another post. What are you flying around in?

Dave,

Not all tail draggers were designed that way. My 48 Stinson has hydraulic toe brakes from the factory.

The rest I agree with whole hartedly.

Dane

Back in the 40's wheel landing were looked down upon by the Feds. My Granpa's CFI wouldn't teach them to him and the guy who gave him his check ride asked if he had ever tried them. He said no because of the fear that the examiner would fail him. But that was also back in the day when you had to do spins during the check ride.

Maybe some remints of that are still out there.

Jon

My CFI used to be an underwriter and told me after thinking of buying a maule himself, the insurance is so high on maules because of the way they are advertised. They assume everyone that flies one is gonna take it into the bush whether they should or not. kinda like a pickup truck with four wheel drive.

That being said I seem to be the exact opposite of most of you guys. All i know how to do are wheelies in my 170A and actually fear the three points.

As you found out the hard way, High Speed Differential breaking is expensive.
Maule's seem a little more difficult to wheel-land than others simply due to the geometry and weight of the tail. Proportionally heavier than say a cub, T-craft, 170, etc. That having been said, it is possible to do and important to know how and harder yet, when.
I was fortunate that my TW instructor drilled into my head that if ANYTHING felt wrong with the landing, put the power to it and do it again. The moment the wheels clear the ground, you're safe again. He also was adamant that trying to brake the plane to steer it on the ground was going to have an obvious outcome. I have a few hours in a 195 and they are the most God awful plane for ground loops but they wheel on terrific. Watch your heinny when the TW touches though!
On a wheel landing, I don't use the brakes to steer until the wing quits flying. When is that? You've got a big tell tale out back there, when the tail quits flying. Depending on the wind speed, angle, load and other variables, it's never the same and takes getting to know your own plane intimately.
Once you get back in the air, the FAA will require you to have a certain number of hours of instruction. Do some research and find the best TW instructor even if it requires some travel. You might check with some of the DE's in your area and see if they can tell you off the record. Make sure that this instructor has flown a number of TW planes, not just a Citabria or such. Much better if you can find a Maule driver, they are a little different (The planes and the people...). If your near Western Washington, there is a great one in Port Townsend.
Good luck and spend lots of time in your plane. I average 100-130 hours a year and any less, think about a lack of proficiency. Fuel is cheaper than a beat up plane or injury.
Planes like ours are capable of landing on most any surface in a surprising number of circumstances. We are the weak link. Modern brakes and materials help in some aspects but can detract in others. Braking to correct for drift at speed is only detracting from the planes ability to fly. Even when on the mains, on the ground, you're flying. Fly the plane.
Have a good time.
Kurt

The best argument against diff. braking while landing in tailwheel aircraft (wheelies or 3 point) was explained to me by an old CFI and it has to do with the ingredients that go into a full blown g loop. (The kind that involve a wing and or nose over) When your in the middle of the g loop and are skidding on the outside tire the last thing you want is for that tire to quit rolling and lock up (which is exactly what diff. braking would do) As explained to me (and it makes sense) this would effectively "trip" the aircraft right onto the wingtip or worse cause a nose over. Assuming the gear stays intact long enough to complete the "manuever"...

As eluded in previous posts, "cobb it and get the heck outta' there" That blast of air on the control surfaces will do wonders. Easy to say and hard to do without training.

Mark

Nice to know I'm not alone. Maybe I'ts a 170 thing, but I feel like if I set up the final approach right and and be patient before the touchdown it will almost wheelie it's self with no need for diff. braking. I'm with the rest of you guys. If your comfortable with one way do that until you get some good dual in the other.

Some good posts on technique. Wheel landings are not and should not be mysterious as some CFI's seem to want to make them.

Remember, just because a person holds a CFI and they are tailwheel endorsed, does not necessarily imply that they are even vaguely qualified to teach in a tailwheel airplane, even though legally they can.

As to wheel landings being looked down on in the 40's--I thought it was the other way around. Ever see a P-51, P-40, P-47, C-46, C-47, Grumman G-21, etc three point land?? Probably won't either. Those were all 40's airplanes, and you won't find anyone who flies any of them that regularly does three points.

The reason for that, though is that none of those airplanes had STEERABLE tailwheels. If the tailwheel doesn't steer, there really isn't any reason to get in a hurry to put it on the ground, is there?

Maules wheel land just fine.

I have used differential braking in landings for years--WHEN ABSOLUTELY necessary. In otherwords, when all steering inputs have failed to remedy the situation, and I'm still convinced I can safely land the plane (the advice to go around if it gets ugly is VERY appropriate), I might use differential braking, as otherwise noted, once the wing is pretty much done flying. And, that only on certain airplanes, really. The Big Cessna taildraggers are ones where, once they are slow, using brakes may be necessary.

My point earlier was that brakes can turn into a crutch, and my experience is that if a person is on the brakes they probably have given up steering, and that's not good. Get used to using differential braking on landings, and sooner or later you'll have a problem.

MTV

mtv wrote:Remember, just because a person holds a CFI and they are tailwheel endorsed, does not necessarily imply that they are even vaguely qualified to teach in a tailwheel airplane, even though legally they can.

Very true. A CFI can go get his tailwheel endorsement, and turn around that same day and give you yours! I asked a kid at the FBO in Grants Pass if he was qualified to give tailwheel dual in a 170. He said sure, that he'd been teaching a guy up in Roseburg in that guy's 170. I asked him how many hours he had in tailwheel aircraft.

He said "Oh about 10."

Me: "In a C-170?"

Him: "mmm..about 2"

JrCubBuilder,

I don't completely disagree with your suggestion to use whatever works best for you, but there IS good reason to MASTER both techniques.

There are situations (and this also tends to be airplane specific to some degree) where wheel landings are really the only safe way to land one of these things.

Try your three point technique in a REALLY gusty crosswind sometime, especially if there are windshears on short final, and close to the surface.

If you slow that thing down to accomplish a three point, you stand a good chance of wrecking it by stalling it close to the ground due to wind shears or gusts.

A wheel landing is really the only safe way to make that work out, because you can carry the extra airspeed that is mandated by the scenario right into the touchdown.

And, if your first wheel landing in two years is in that sort of scenario.......

MTV

What MTV said. Figure out how to do it all in what you fly. If you're freaked out by the three point go do a bunch. If wheel landings scare you go do a bunch.
I personally do more wheel landings than three point but it just works for my environment. I can still lay out a sweet three pointer at will or when I get lazy. It's easier to set a pitch angle, chop the power, and thump in than actually fly the plane when you're getting bored. I think they call it complacency !
That 40's airplane crap is crap too. The only ones I didn't three point much at all were ones from the 40's or 50's. DC-3 for one, turbine Beech 18, and Cessna 195 (450 h.p.). You can in all of them but it isn't the best, the wheel landing is preffered for myself and others I've flown with.