So I am looking to help some kids get started toward their PPLs. Not necessarily through a flight school, but initially through getting a Student Pilot Certificate and taking advantage of some of the locally available CFI's who are willing to help, which is more or less the path I took 15+ years ago. Back then you walked in off the street to any AME, read the vision chart and got your kneecaps thumped, and walked out with an all-in-one Student Pilot Certificate and 3rd Class Medical. A little googling indicates that those days are long gone.

Now there's FAA websites with usernames, logins, passwords, FAA Tracking Numbers, and no less than 18 syllables in the title. Somehow you need to get a "Certifying Official" to verify that you speak english. And the medical requirement has to be run through Medxpress, which is a whole other pile of usernames, logins, passwords, etc, etc. What a colossal mess.

Any tips on the easiest path through the bureaucracy, for some kids that just want to learn to fly?

Thanks,

-DP

I'll be interested to hear if anyone has a better way through. I haven't looked at this stuff for a long time now!

Does BasicMed offer less bureaucracy then a 3rd class medical?

Student pilot certs aren't that big of a deal, but it is slightly delayed due to the TSA background checks to make sure they aren't flying with nefarious intent. I believe medical is now a separate piece of paper from the student cert. Also note that BasicMed is not student-eligible for first time applicants, as the premise of BasicMed is that you've held at least a third class medical. So they will need to go to an AME and get at least the third-class done once.

Get them into a Young Eagles flight though. When they complete the flight and the EAA gets the completed form (sent by whoever provided the flight), the kid gets a free Sporty's PPL ground course among some other things. This is a great way to give them a leg up on the knowledge side. Your local EAA chapter probably holds YE events periodically; we do it here a couple times a month (we put a LOT of kids in planes!) but it varies chapter by chapter. EAA members can also do YE flights and sign them without a rally but you don't get their full insurance benefits.

It's really not a big deal. The kid should go to one of the local CFI's, since they will definitively know this stuff. It takes less than an hour to do everything online then you wait a week for your certificate to come in the mail. This also gives them a chance to meet their CFI. I see no reason in a student ever "preparing" or doing anything (including getting a student certificate or medical) before first meeting an instructor. The CFI can lead them through things like this very easily. It's their job.

-Asa

asa wrote:It's really not a big deal. The kid should go to one of the local CFI's, since they will definitively know this stuff. It takes less than an hour to do everything online then you wait a week for your certificate to come in the mail. This also gives them a chance to meet their CFI. I see no reason in a student ever "preparing" or doing anything (including getting a student certificate or medical) before first meeting an instructor. The CFI can lead them through things like this very easily. It's their job.

-Asa

No doubt this is the case elsewhere. In this case, AMEs are a three to five-hour drive away, kids don't have driver's licenses to get there, CFIs have day jobs, and the window for instruction is short enough already. Hence trying to front load the bureaucracy.

denalipilot wrote:

asa wrote:It's really not a big deal. The kid should go to one of the local CFI's, since they will definitively know this stuff. It takes less than an hour to do everything online then you wait a week for your certificate to come in the mail. This also gives them a chance to meet their CFI. I see no reason in a student ever "preparing" or doing anything (including getting a student certificate or medical) before first meeting an instructor. The CFI can lead them through things like this very easily. It's their job.

-Asa

No doubt this is the case elsewhere. In this case, AMEs are a three to five-hour drive away, kids don't have driver's licenses to get there, CFIs have day jobs, and the window for instruction is short enough already. Hence trying to front load the bureaucracy.

3-5 hour drive is a pretty short plane ride, relatively speaking. Let the kid take the controls and fly some cross country navigation and get them closer to an AME that way? It is just a one time event as well, so a pain no doubt but not a repetitive one.

asa wrote:.....The kid should go to one of the local CFI's, since they will definitively know this stuff......The CFI can lead them through things like this very easily. It's their job.

I agree. In a perfect world, that is.
Some of the flight instructors I've met around are on the ball with this stuff, but others...not so much.
One CFI here doesn't know anything about sport pilot / LSA, and doesn't want to know.
"Just get a real pilots license" he sez.
I think he also expects his students to get their own student certificate, and medical, without his help.
"A crusty old timer" is an apt description.
Not too good IMHO, with today's BS rules and red tape a newbie (kid or adult) needs all the help and encouragement they can get.

Maybe not the answer you want to hear, but any kid who cannot navigate the FAA website has zero chance of being a pilot. It's not that different, or any more difficult, than the sign in to the half-dozen social media sites they're probably already familiar with.

If that little hiccup is enough to turn them off, then their chance of making it through pilotage and dead reckoning, or VOR navigation, or god forbid meteorology, is slim to none.

I loath user names and passwords more than most...I'll happily pay $40 more for a pair of shoes just so I don't have to log in to buy them. But in the big scheme of getting a pilots license, the FAA registration is negligible.

I agree with Hammer,

The log in stuff won't be the issue for kids getting their PPL, it's cost. My observation is that kids that have family members that fly are way more likely to get financial help with their license than those that don't. I would be surprised if many non-flying parents are going to shell out the cash for 40 - 60+ hours of flight instruction and plane rental and I don't know ANY kids that could do that on their own without friends in the field. Personally i think it would be pretty cool if there was a network of (Maybe there already is and I just don't know about it) people willing to donate time in their planes for flight lessons for kids.

My 2 cents,

Pete

Both Hammer and Pete are right on. Getting the student cert. is no big deal. Getting to an AME? How else would you propose getting a flight ohysical done? This is really not significantly harder than it ever was, frankly. Young people today live on the web, so the FAA process for student cert is no big deal.

Pete’s point re funding is right on. That said, there is a LOT of money out there in the form of scholarships for flight training, including for Private Pilot training. Do a bit of searching on the web. And, start with AOPA site....they have an initiative going now.

In Alaska, this can be a daunting challenge, no doubt. One key at this time of year is to get one NIGHT flight of dual instruction done with him before there is no more “night” there. There is a requirement in the PPL regs that requires “some” night experience to get the PPL, even the restricted “no night flight” PPL.

I’ve gone out at midnight in FAI near the last “night” before summer with a prospective student to fill that square before they started actual flight training. They do not have to have a student cert or medical to receive a bit of dual instruction.

MTV

I was going to suggest something like Hammer did as well, but from a different angle...

The real hurdle today for kids IMHO is not the red tape. With all the social media and computer based requirements cast on todays young people, navigating any website for them is going to be a walk in the park.

I also don't think geographical issues are as bad as the face value suggests, I personally know two young men who went from working in a pizza shop in small town Wellton, AZ (population 2500 +/- including snow birds) to working summers in Egegik, AK (smaller town, pop 120 +/-). And neither of these young guys had a hand out to get it done.

The world is a pretty tiny place for a savvy kid with a computer.

I am of the opinion that there are 2 simple keys to getting todays kids (or anyone for the matter) on the path to success in aviation.

the first , easy peasy;

passion.... either it is a passion or it is not. I need someone in the front seat of my cub for about five minutes to tell you whether there is a spark there or not. If that 5 minutes doesn't ignite a passion, you could hand them a written plan of action, and a pile of cash, and while they may actually secure a license and be able to operate an aircraft, they will not have the passion to truly fit my definition of a successful aviator.
But passion is easy. It's either there (although maybe hidden due to having never been discovered) or it's not...

The second key to the puzzle is conveying the simple concept that even in todays world of e-everything, most passions require skills and knowledge. Skills and knowledge (real knowledge not google based rote knowledge) require work. Work, has fallen out of vogue in todays instant gratification world.

Show me a kid that has a passion for flight and the drive to work at it, and I think you'll find that he probably doesn't need you or I in his way on the road to earning a PPL.

Want to make it easy? expose them to the wonder, then show them a few knuckle heads that weren't born with silver spoons, and didn't have aviation background families and still made it to positions of flying some really cool airsheens. If that doesn't do it, it's probably time to support what really is their passion...

Take care, Rob

One of the kids here wanted to do it. He went up to Fairbanks and got into the aviation program. I think it’s some sort of vocational deal done by the U. He hadn’t even finished high school yet. He finished his high school at the same place. He came home in 2 years with a private ticket and an A&P. Worked a couple more years and got his IA, and went south and did the commercial/instrument. Works for the only old school/hometown air service left in Juneau, wrenching and flying. Damn kid is only 25 years old. Like said above, he had the drive to get it done.

One other thing, he was a home-schooler.

What Rob said.
With a kid, or an adult, for that matter, either aviation lights their fire or it doesn't.
Plain as that.
I know of a couple kids whose dads were pilots and they had the opportunity to take up flying at little or no cost....
and they didn't. Took a few lessons, but quit either before soloing or shortly thereafter.

Soo... I've probably shared this story before, but it's worth sharing again.

So this is my dear friend Angel Torres…


Angel was pretty much the iconic picture of a kid who stood no chance of getting in an airplane, let alone an aviation career. Born an raised in San Luis, AZ, of a less than middle income family.

Pretty much shoots holes in the you gotta be rich or know someone into flying already theories.

We met Angel when our son started flying lessons with a local retired Marine CFI. Angel was the quintessential ‘fence kid’ always hanging around the airport, always ready to help wash, push or polish an airplane. Always in the way... in a good sort of 'in the way'...

He knew he was dirt poor and had no idea that was even a concern. he worked at the car wash and the movie theater, and every penny he earned went into the next flight.

Shortly after meeting our son Josh, he connected the dots and realized that his dentists assistant (who loved the kids great attitude) was married to the owner of one of the towns local ag operators. The same one my son's dad flew for....

The kid hated loading because he hardly stood tall enough to load or fuel, but he did it.

Later he became a spotter (the guy who clears fields out ahead of the airplane) and every bit of that money went to flying as well.
As an example of his determination, I can recall calling his pilot to help me many times last season. The significance here is the if I call on Dan, it means;

a) we will be flying till sun up (probably around 6AM)
b) the spotter was actually clocked in since 3PM getting ready for the night, and
c) my valley is about 40 miles east of the home strip, which is about 15 miles from Angels home town….

Talk about long duty days! Never the less last year when the main office offered Angel a Caravan ride and tickets in to the National convention, Angel was all in. And you guessed, the night before I had called on Dan, and I’m sure we both got about an hour and a half sleep before loading up in the rented Caravan for the ride to Long Beach.

By this point Angel had earned his Commercial ticket, and as a result of catching the eye of a local CFI who owned a Christian eagle, had worked his way up to being a pretty decent aerobatic pilot.

This kids passion alone was so compelling, that I can’t even begin to remember all the different types and models of airplanes he had PIC'd before even having 1000 hours under his belt. I mean he was so enjoyable anyone who got him checked out in their airplane just loved to see him fly it.

Studying the photos on this social media picture site should give you an idea of what I mean when I say passion; I had the honor of being a part of many of those shots

http://www.pictame.com/user/elpillo90/1 ... _196405632


Sadly my last conversation with Angel was the day he was to get checked out in a Turbine Thrush. The next day I got a call from the schools chief pilot (a good friend of mine) and a call from the operator we both work for. They were almost simultaneous, and both were the kind of call you just don't want to get. After having had the privilege of knowing Angel, I have a hard time feeling sorry for a person who says they want to fly but doesn’t have the stamina to get the job done.

Take care, Rob

RIP little brother

Rob wrote:I was going to suggest something like Hammer did as well, but from a different angle...

The real hurdle today for kids IMHO is not the red tape. With all the social media and computer based requirements cast on todays young people, navigating any website for them is going to be a walk in the park.

I also don't think geographical issues are as bad as the face value suggests, I personally know two young men who went from working in a pizza shop in small town Wellton, AZ (population 2500 +/- including snow birds) to working summers in Egegik, AK (smaller town, pop 120 +/-). And neither of these young guys had a hand out to get it done.

The world is a pretty tiny place for a savvy kid with a computer.

I am of the opinion that there are 2 simple keys to getting todays kids (or anyone for the matter) on the path to success in aviation.

the first , easy peasy;

passion.... either it is a passion or it is not. I need someone in the front seat of my cub for about five minutes to tell you whether there is a spark there or not. If that 5 minutes doesn't ignite a passion, you could hand them a written plan of action, and a pile of cash, and while they may actually secure a license and be able to operate an aircraft, they will not have the passion to truly fit my definition of a successful aviator.
But passion is easy. It's either there (although maybe hidden due to having never been discovered) or it's not...

The second key to the puzzle is conveying the simple concept that even in todays world of e-everything, most passions require skills and knowledge. Skills and knowledge (real knowledge not google based rote knowledge) require work. Work, has fallen out of vogue in todays instant gratification world.

Show me a kid that has a passion for flight and the drive to work at it, and I think you'll find that he probably doesn't need you or I in his way on the road to earning a PPL.

Want to make it easy? expose them to the wonder, then show them a few knuckle heads that weren't born with silver spoons, and didn't have aviation background families and still made it to positions of flying some really cool airsheens. If that doesn't do it, it's probably time to support what really is their passion...

Take care, Rob

EXACTLY!!!

I lived on very little money driving a $500 car when I got my PPL. It's all I wanted to do! I see some young people so driven to get their ticket, had another guy whose dad bought all his ratings through multi commercial and after meeting with him to try and help him get a 135 job in AK he couldn't even build a resume the way I showed him...gave him a redacted copy of mine and he couldn't just rewrite it and fill in the blanks. And his dad sent it in for him and made the follow up calls. So disappointing.

I

Rob, I'm so sorry about the loss of your young friend.
Sounds like he was a hard worker and a go-getter, and had a positive, can-do attitude.
I wish more kids these days were like that.
Hell, I wish I'd been more like that!

+1 on the passion

If someone falls in love with flying, not much will stand in their way.


On the other side, if someone doesn't love flying, then they probably won't get far.

Instead of a puppy-mill 200 hour wonder that’s only instructing until he can move up, maybe us seasoned backcountry guys should get instructor ticket and pass on our knowledge and experience. That’s what I’m doing.

Double tap.