Backcountry Pilot • Idaho Backcountry Trip

Idaho Backcountry Trip

Near misses, close calls, and lessons learned the hard way. Share with others so that they might avoid the same mistakes.
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kevbert wrote: I can fully understand the incredible emotional need !


Shit, you guys want "incredible emotion" and danger? I'll give you incredible emotion and danger...

One week ago I watched Mr Scout try and negotiate a ditch in the road on his Honda Rubicon four-wheeler. With and ice chest full of beer. In glass bottles none the less. And a beautiful girl riding on the back... The situation was just ripe with potential disaster.

One wheel going up in the air. Bike rocking back and forth. Mr Scout in an alcohol induced drooling coma looking like the Special Olympics champion he truly is. Absolutely heartstopping drama. And being ten feet back on my bike, I was close enough to grasp it all, and could have very well choked on my beer as I was laughing. Who gives a shit about broken nosewheels, I could have wasted beer. Thank God I'm a trained professional.

Gump
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Ok, things I learned from this:

1. A block and tackle looks pretty handy
2. In the short final picture in his photo gallery, the grass marks will tell you where the locals choose to touch down:
Image
3. Stay in Alaska :roll:

-DP
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http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery ... p?album=97


Check out these photos in the BCP archives for hardcore field repair.
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kevbert wrote:Interesting thread so far! Perhaps more interesting for me than most, because I too had a minor mishap at Big Creek about two weeks ago.

I was flying into backcountry strips east of McCall with my Dad in my 172. I arrived at Big Creek without incident, and we stayed on the ground until about 1130AM. When we were getting ready to leave, I checked the temperature (80 deg. F), calculated the density altitude (8400 ft.), then checked the performance charts to verify that I could get out of there. Everything looked good, and since the windsock was limp, I took off from runway 01 since it's little higher than the 19 end of the runway.

As expected, I lifted off just before the half way point and started to slowly climb. All of a sudden, at about 50 feet off the ground, I could feel the airplane drop. I instinctively started to pull back on the yoke, and the stall warning came on for an instant, so I immediately pushed the nose forward a little. I could see I wasn't going to make it so I cut the throttle and put it down on the remaining runway. I had a little over 600 ft. of runway left, and I braked hard and skidded for 200 yards to the end of the runway. I didn't want to go over the embankment at the end, so I aimed for the far left corner thinking I would put the wing into the trees if I had any speed left. I was down to about 10 mph when I hit the white rocks that mark the corner of the runway and I came to an abrupt stop. We got out of the plane and immediately felt the wind. I looked back up at the other end of the runway, and I could see that the sock was still limp there! However, there was a 15 mph tailwind for the last part of the runway, and I hadn't been aware of it or I never would have taken off. The wind had to come from somewhere, and in retrospect, I had to have flown into a downdraft that then became a tailwind.

One of the main wheels had hit a pretty good sized rock, and that is what stopped us. That put a side force on the nose wheel which was in the rocks, and the jolt broke one half of the nose wheel, and the tube was torn. There was no other discernable damage to the aircraft, despite being joyfully inspected by every pilot that wandered by! Ray Arnold of Arnold Aviation in Cascade showed up in a turbo 206, and said he would find me a wheel. My dad rented a cabin to spend the night. The next day Ray brought a loaner wheel and he even installed it for me while I pushed down on the tail, but it was pretty late in the day, so my Dad and I spent another night and then came out the next morning.

I'm confident that I did the right thing by deciding to abort the takeoff. One big factor in my speed of decision making was that I had been practicing the week before on MS Flight Simulator by pretending that I had lost an engine on takeoff and I had been trying to figure out how high I needed to get before I landed straight ahead vs. trying to turn 180 deg. to land. (for the record, I decided I'll never turn 180 unless I'm at least 1000 ft. AGL). As a result, it was natural to act quickly and decisively. So, I'm happy with how I handled the crisis, the only thing I wished I would have done better was to have never taken off.

I learned a couple of good lessons. The rule about doing mtn. flying in the morning is a good one, not just for density altitude, but also because of unpredictable winds once it starts to warm up. I hadn't given the winds the weight they deserved. Carefully check the far end of the strip for wind conditions. I glanced at the sock down at the other end before taking off, and I thought it was also limp, but I didn't really study it or look that closely. I'm not sure if I just saw what I wanted to see or if the wind started after I started my takeoff roll. I'll be studying it with binoculars next time!

I was pondering duct taping the wheel together, stuffing the tire full of pine needles, and flying it out if I didn't get a wheel in a few days. My thought process was that the airplane was airworthy, although it wasn't quite as groundworthy, and I didn't want to be there so long that a weather system moved in. I would have left my Dad there because he has a sister in McCall that could have easily driven in to get him. However, I got a replacement wheel, and the point was moot. But now that I've experienced the anxiety of being stuck at a relatively remote airstrip, I can fully understand the incredible emotional need to get the plane out of there ASAP!


Should of just put your dad in the back seat and flew out. Get gas in McCall and then flew home to fix it.

I know last year the FAA investigated a photo that was on supercub.org. I wouldnt be surprised if the FAA calls you ( 182 guy ) with all the attention this thread is getting. I saw it linked on another board also. Better start thinking of how you determined it was airworthy with out a ferry permit just in case they call.
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I had this happen once at Big Creek as I was departing. It was about 11 and the wind was just barely starting to come up. Was in my Tripacer back then. I lowered the nose and accelerated and climbed out of it. But then I had a rather exceptional Tripacer. 160 HP, VG's and a flat 53 inch pitch prop which gave me over 800 ft per min climb at practically all the strips I went to. Now I have a "Pacer on Steroids" more commonly known as a Maule... There's no substitute for Horsepower in the mountains. A 172 with two guys, having just had breakfast, doesn't perform very well at 8000 ft DA> Looking back I bet you wish you had spent the day there till evening. Not the worst place to spend the day. They have horses and food and great fishing...I have one question though. You say you took off on 1 cause it was higher. I hope you never even considered the other direction. The only way to depart Big Creek is down hill. Unless you are in something spectacular and even then why would you depart into rising terain...Pretty good rule of thumb up there is land upstream take off downstream..and don't fly after 11 am...
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I watched a 185 with two guys and a load of camping gear take off late one afternoon when the wind was blowing downstream. They got off by about 1/2 way, flew in ground effect the rest of the way to the end of the strip and then dropped out of sight when they hit the big downslope downdraft off of the north end. They flew down the creek and radioed back to their friends (who were in a 180, waiting to see how it went) that they barely made it and for them to wait it out. Scary.

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iceman wrote:I have one question though. You say you took off on 1 cause it was higher. I hope you never even considered the other direction. The only way to depart Big Creek is down hill.


No, I would never consider doing it backwards in my 172 ( unless maybe there was a 30mph wind coming down the creek). I'll admit my story implies otherwise. I should have just said I took the proper downstream departure.

When Ray Arnold brought in the wheel in his turbo 206, he dropped some passengers off by the lodge. Then we taxied in his plane down to the other end where my plane was. After he helped me get the wheel on, he hopped in his otherwise empty plane and took off upstream. He shot up like a champagne cork. I can only dream of that kind of power to weight ratio!
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GumpAir wrote:
mr scout wrote::shock: Probably just a normal day in some parts of the country, no Gump dont get started.


More power to them, and no one can ever accuse them of being chickenshit. I'd rather fly with a guy who can think on his feet and figure out a way to get it done by himself any day of the week, than with someone who just rolls over and dribbles pee down their leg when it gets tough, and lets the government tell them what to do.

Gump



I bet you like John Wayne too, don't you big fella? :)
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Don't know about the Duke in real life, but the characters he played were certainly some of my heros.

Gus and Capt'n Call from Lonesome Dove are the ones I truly try and model my life after, and I'm not ashamed to say that I've actually sat there and thought to myself, "What would Gus do in this situation" before I've made some life changing choices.

Gump
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Yup, the Duke pretty much exemplified all the good stuff that made our country so great. A shame kids today don't have role models like that.

And Gump, just in case there was any question, my earlier comment was intended as a compliment - - but yuo probably figured that.
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Tito wrote:
kevbert wrote:Should of just put your dad in the back seat and flew out. Get gas in McCall and then flew home to fix it.

I know last year the FAA investigated a photo that was on supercub.org. I wouldnt be surprised if the FAA calls you ( 182 guy ) with all the attention this thread is getting. I saw it linked on another board also. Better start thinking of how you determined it was airworthy with out a ferry permit just in case they call.



No sh*t, you guys are hillarious. I see nothing but rationalizing one of the all time stupid decisions.

1) It was my decision

Not after the nosegear busted it wasn't. You aren't allowed to return a plane to service.

2) My Dad has 8 gazillion hours and knew the risk and it was his call.

It was never his call unless he is now the PIC. I understand family pressures but that is not a relevant argument.

3) Taking off an unairworthy airplane from BC because of a slight inconvenience shows poor judgement. All the people who then flew to McCall to see if you made it should have tripped an alarm somewhere inside. Waving goodbye to them from McCall....Taking off from McCall in the same condition is infinitely worse and shows no judgement exercised at all. I can easily see the FAA revoking pilot certificates on an emergency basis. They've done it for less.

4) The first post made no mention of insurance. Nobody with insurance and any smarts risks not having insurance in the end by flying an unairworthy airplane. Twice. With apparently lots of witnesses.

5) People who criticize...what, they've never made a mistake? Like that's somehow relevant? I've rolled an airplane into a ball. That was a mistake. But I didn't duct tape it back together and fly it somewhere because of some slight inconvenience to me. Twice.
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I can see both side of this argument, I really can... But come on. This is still the United States. As a citizen you have the right to take risks, even to the point of getting killed if you screw up.

An airliner. A small commercial flight. A private pilot flying a civilian around. Then you can't, and by the rules it has to be.

But in your OWN airplane? Flying over mountains and raw wilderness from some shithole strip in Idaho to a bit bigger shithole strip in Nevada. What the hell's the difference in that and doing a shadetree fix on your pickup truck and driving home after busting something out in the boonies on a hunting trip. I'd be a whole lot more concerned about a faulty car heading at me on some two lane country road, than the infinitesimally small risk of a broken nose gear on a C182 hurting anybody no matter what happened.

Just because the FAA says it's wrong, it doesn't mean they're right. Seems everyone fears the wrath of the Feds now days, and I tell you what, I for one am getting sick and fucking tired of seeing people afraid of an agency who is supposed to be there to help us, the flying public of this country, and takes my money in the form of taxes to feed itself. If the US government was truly concerned about it's citizen's welfare, cigarettes would be illegal, and working on your own airplane legal. Guess $$$ is what makes it all right.

Like I said before, it's downright refreshing to see someone grow a set of balls and get themselves out of a fix. So what if it was dumb. Until the Storm Troopers bang down the front door and lock us all up in work camps, we have the right to be dumb, as long as we aren't physically hurting anyone else. If more people stood up and refused to be bullied, we wouldn't be the whimpering pussies we are now.

Gump
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Hey Bonanza Man,

Everyone here realizes that there was a lapse in judgement. Some may condone his actions on a "do what you gotta do" basis but no one is offering a Blue -Chip award for flying a damaged plane.

But you come strait out of the gate calling him a Moron. We all have our own opinions but calling him a moron for dealing with serious situation in the backcountry is out of line.

Unless, of course, you have unique and well-seasoned moronic qualities by which to label other life forms as "simple" morons.

And when did we all become De Facto FAA Deputies?
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SixTwoLeemer wrote:
And when did we all become De Facto FAA Deputies?
For me, it was soon after I lost my first friend in a stoopid crash.
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