I don't know when Cessna started, but my 77 185 had the nut Plates/Rivnuts (I don't remember which) installed for the mounting. As I remember, from that it was only a matter of slicing the headliner and mounting. Very quick.

Yeah I saw Matt say he estimated 2-4 hours. I was curious if TxKiger found that to be a good estimate and what his actual times ended up being.

Looking at the instructions, it looks like we will have to move the nut plates.

Resky wrote:I don't know when Cessna started, but my 77 185 had the nut Plates/Rivnuts (I don't remember which) installed for the mounting. As I remember, from that it was only a matter of slicing the headliner and mounting. Very quick.

Same with my 1974 185 I had.

Kurt

G44 wrote:

Resky wrote:I don't know when Cessna started, but my 77 185 had the nut Plates/Rivnuts (I don't remember which) installed for the mounting. As I remember, from that it was only a matter of slicing the headliner and mounting. Very quick.

Same with my 1974 185 I had.

Kurt

FWIW, My '54 170B has the factory nutplates. I'd be surprised if anything Cessna built after that did not have them. (Though it wouldn't be my first surprise)

Installation is mechanically trivial, I recall maybe an hour when we did it, but fussing with the headliner can take as much time as you care to spend. I marked mine (new airtex wool headliner) for the slit and had my mom reinforce the slits like a button hole. Mom's chops with the sewing machine are pretty impressive- took her 10 minutes. All the stitching happens BEFORE the slit gets cut. Still looks great 15 years later.

Cheers,
Pete

Grassstrippilot wrote:...Looking at the instructions, it looks like we will have to move the nut plates.

Buddy of mine installed a set in his early C210, he had to move or install new nutplates. I think something else (bracket?) had to be relocated also.

Yup. That's what we will have to do.

Took my mechanic and I about 3 easy hours to install in mine and that included the new nutplate install.

Cool! Thanks for that. We install it tomorrow. So I'll post some pics and an update when it's done!

If getting BAS harnesses is in your future, (it should be if it isn't) then I HIGHLY suggest you get the seaplane version. Just think quick exit. As much "water skiing" as some like to do here, imagine it going bad and being upside down in the water trying to get out not being able to see anything, now imagine after getting unbuckled you get hung up on the standard type lap and shoulder strap that is solidly attached at the buckle, not good! This could also apply on land with fire. I choose more safety over less hassle every time.

Just my thoughts on that subject....

Having been there, done that, I couldn't agree more, seaplane is the way to go.

Gary

Just wondering about the seaplane version mentioned...are y'all referring to the BAS "Utility Buckle," or is there something else better?

Skalywag wrote:Just wondering about the seaplane version mentioned...are y'all referring to the BAS "Utility Buckle," or is there something else better?

Yep, utility is also called seaplane. Shoulder strap isn't attached to lap belt except when buckled.

Took me a couple of hours to install. The hardest part is dealing with the zipper in the headliner if your headliner is very old.

Well, that was a bit of a pain, but it is done. So, to answer my own question, I'd say 2-3 hours if you can use the existing factory nut plate location. We ended up taking about 5 hours. If we were to do one tomorrow, I bet we could do it in 3-4. We had a few missteps and that cost is some time. The instructions do leave something to be desired. Just not as well organized as they could be. The biggest time consumer was trying to get the nut plate secured enough to get a screw threaded so we could rivet it into its new position. The instructions for 200 series aircraft have you move the nut plate 2+ inches over, which make them a little off center. Anyway, that was a pain. It took us two hours to get the first one done. The next one went faster but still probably took 30-45 minutes. In the end, I wish I would have had the time to have thought this through and painted the plate to match the headliner. It will be a mild to moderate pain to pull it back off, but down the road I probably will. If I would have had a day or two to get ready for the install and go through the parts, it probably would have dawned on my to do it and it would have been easy to just grab some paint and paint it. Oh well...another days project.

Anyway, they are in and I'm glad.

Before with hooks installed for some sort of harness setup that was no longer in the plane.


Old and new nut plate location.


Bracket installed with holes in the roof where rivets were drilled out.


Both brackets installed.


Measuring lots of times before cutting the headliner.


The final product.


My only regret is not thinking ahead of time to paint the plate to match the headliner. Otherwise, I'm happy and glad they are in.

I seriously doubt that you'll ever regret the time and $$ to install the BAS harness. They are simply the best piece of safety equipment you can install, and the way they are designed and installed makes them MUCH stronger than any other harness system on the market for Cessnas.

I have flown a number of Cessnas on both wheels and floats with the BAS harness system, with both buckle arrangements, and I MUCH prefer the "standard" buckle system, where the lap belt on one side is permanently connected to the shoulder belt on that side. And, yes, I've used that style buckle/belt arrangement installed in a couple of seaplanes as well. If I were going to install another BAS harness in any Cessna, seaplane or not, I'd go with the "standard" buckle arrangement.

A 206 isn't as bad, because it doesn't have a right side door, unless, as in the case of the 206s I flew, they've been retrofitted with one by Wipaire. With a right side door, the pilot absolutely MUST focus on getting those damn "utility" buckle lap belt inside the cockpit prior to engine start, when the right seat is unoccupied, of course. Start the engine one time with that belt hanging out the door and you'll regret it. Take off with it out the door, and you'll do some serious damage. I know---pilots SHOULD be on top of this stuff.

But, start working a seaplane, and you will soon find out that there are places where you simply have to get in a bit of a hurry. And, that loose lap belt represents one more thing you have to keep track of when you're busy trying to keep from hitting something. Doesn't happen that often, but it happens.

As to emergency egress, doing so with the "standard" belt is really easy, and in my opinion is no more difficult than getting out with the "utility" or "seaplane" belt. Just open the door and roll out, it's a very natural way to exit, and that right side belt assy just rolls off your shoulder nicely. I've released this style belt while docking/beaching, etc in a wind many times, and never got hung up or any difficulties.

So, in my opinion (and we all know about those) I really believe the "standard" belt arrangement is a better setup.

But, in any case, I don't like flying ANY Cessna airplanes without the BAS harness installed.

MTV

No I'd never regret installing them. I don't think I've flown a plane in the last couple of decades that didn't have them. And that's why they were the first upgrade put immediately into the plane. I just wish I had thought about painting the plate to match the headliner before we hurriedly put them in! Oh well, it can be taken off and painted after the fact. Just more work.

So, a follow up question. While shopping for a new plane, I saw a Cessna with cross over shoulder harnesses for the rear seats. They didn't appear to be ones with an inertial real. I emailed Jim up at BAS and he said that some Cessnas have hard points for all the seats. Well, a look at my parts manual shows just that. They appear to be just like the front two, meaning that it is a nut plate in the ceiling centered behind the seat.

So, what options are out there? Hooker harnesses look like a possibility, but they don't have any good pics on their site...save the topless chick sitting with the harnesses done up. [emoji1]

Oh yeah, I also pulled the plates and painted them to match. Not to much of a pain and they look great now!




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Does installing a set of these constitute "complex assembly operation", or would it fall under the 'replacing safety belts' part of FAR 43 Appendix A(c)(14) for owner preventive maintenance? Where I'm going with this is do I actually need an IA sign-off/participation, or do the owner maintenance provisions cover me doing the work and filling in the books myself?

This is one of the very next things being done on my 'new' '57 182, the lap-only belts in there will not exist past next month, at least in the front. I'd also like to do the rear seat at some point, but for now that one's OK since passengers there won't go headfirst into the panel.

colopilot wrote:Does installing a set of these constitute "complex assembly operation", or would it fall under the 'replacing safety belts' part of FAR 43 Appendix A(c)(14) for owner preventive maintenance? Where I'm going with this is do I actually need an IA sign-off/participation, or do the owner maintenance provisions cover me doing the work and filling in the books myself?

This is one of the very next things being done on my 'new' '57 182, the lap-only belts in there will not exist past next month, at least in the front. I'd also like to do the rear seat at some point, but for now that one's OK since passengers there won't go headfirst into the panel.

Check out the FAA policy statement for retrofit shoulder harnesses.

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/media/shoulderpolicy.pdf

There is guidance for minor alteration approvals, which would get you closest to preventative maintenance. That guidance says no drilling holes. You have to drill a couple holes for the BAS mounts.

There is no reason you couldn't install them yourself and have an IA "supervise" your work and sign the 337 for the STC.


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Cool, thanks for the clarification. Yes I'd want to do it myself either way, but that explains the paper trail part of things.

Prosaria wrote:
There is no reason you couldn't install them yourself and have an IA "supervise" your work and sign the 337 for the STC

Just put a harness in the Champ with IA supervision. IA is filling out the STC and W&B now.

A caveat...I am a ex flyer of the mighty 180 and ultra mighty 185 and my opinions rank right up there with all of the other has beens that no longer are active aviators and owners. But I do enjoy looking at the fabulous rebuilds on this site. I have no opinions about what is better or worse, or who or what the best of anything is other than hot Serbian women and BAS harnesses.
Mike V is in my most firm opinion correct, the "old style" original BAS harnesses work efficiently, even when you crash, and even when you are hurt. And even when you have to crawl out the window upside down. and even when you can't see out of your eyes from the blood, and even when your head is swollen from a ice cooler coming forward THROUGH your cargo net and coming close to de capitating you. There is no thinking process then when you smell fuel, and are bleeding and stunned. You need to, and want to get out, and NOW.
Both probably work as well, but the main message is get them installed THE FIRST THING YOU DO WHEN YOU BUY A 180 OR 185.
I would post some pictures making all of you believers, but no way I will ever understand this format. But please keep rebuilding these great birds, I really enjoy reading and observing these rebuilds. And that is the message from exVxclimber.