Backcountry Pilot • Insurance vs getting old

Insurance vs getting old

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Insurance vs getting old

My T210 insurance is coming due; went up $200 from $2875. Just spoke with my insurance broker and she said majority are going up as is to be expected. She also wants me to wrap my Husky insurance (currently with Old Dominion) in with T210 using USAIG. Apparently, Old Dominion (whom we've never used before in 39 yrs and 8 airplanes with 5 being TW) has a policy that at 75 yrs old and older will only insure the pilot for duel. I just turned 68 and she (broker) wants to make sure I'm still an ongoing client with USAIG after I sell the T210 next spring/summer. Also, Old Dominion is apparently becoming TW unfriendly.
Just a heads up; yours could be different.
Jack
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

At 72, was unable to get a $1M smooth policy this year for my 182. Hmmm.... Time marches on

Was thinking of getting TW checkout. And maybe buying a Husky? Complications...

Best,

Tom
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

I heard the insures are denying all pilots over 75 years old for tailwheel regardless of a clean record and experience. I am 53 and wonder if the policy will be even worse as I get older. Global aerospace denied my million smooth policy this year after 11 years of no premium increases - and no claims.


Josh
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

There’s a good article on insurance premiums on AOPAs web site now. Globally, insurance underwriters have had a lot of claims. While we tend to think of aircraft insurance as being separate from other forms of insurance, the underwriters we use underwrite all sorts of policies. So, unfortunately, while aircraft accidents drive rates, other insurance losses are also going to factor in to policy premiums for pilots.

At my age, I’m not looking forward to my next quote.

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Re: Insurance vs getting old

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Last edited by dogpilot on Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

dogpilot wrote:Aside from age, which has no particular advantage except access to Medicare, insurance rates are going up for bunches of other reasons. Some of the biggest reasons are just good old stupidity. Fools make mistakes, some more humorous than others, and mistakes cost insurers. There have been some high profile, poor judgement caused, mistakes lately. That particular loss will most likely cost the insurers more than all the taildragger losses combined.

Jet sales where huge this year. There was a feeding frenzy of wonks buying them for tax purposes. I have a good friend who supplies crews on contract for just that type. He has enormous issues finding qualified crews that do not suffer from poor judgment. So these wonks will go out and hire them themselves, since he cannot supply them. Expect an uptick in high end Citations and the like, going off runways, running into each other taxiing, finding heretofore unnoticed terrain and so on.

Unfortunately, yes, we all need to hang up the spurs someday. At Burning Man, we had an older gent, in excess of 75, loose the bubble in the pattern in a 340. Oversped the flaps and damaged them rather badly. He then proceeded to land on the taxiway, fail to stop on it , run though the ramp, scattering people right & left, ending in the rough. Being the Air Safety guy, I went over with my bud Dan to see exactly what happened. We first encounter his daughter, who implored us to keep him on the ground. We talk with the somewhat confused gent for a bit and yes, he should really take up another pastime. Where my bud Dan turns to me and says; "Don't let me be that guy!" So hopefully you will realize you are "that guy," before the insurance guys nudge you out of the game.


In the same vein, I watched a beautiful RV-8 take off out of KSZP, snap an upwind then downwind leg and exit the AO. Hour later he returns with a perfect wheel landing and taxi to the fuel pumps. He climbed out and was definitely in the age group mentioned above. Stud pilot for sure.

I've seen 20 somethings ground loop a 172, fly the prop into the ground on a 172, land long in a taildragger with a tailwind and then jam the brakes to get stopped and doing an endo into the ditch at Lake Hood. Bad judgement respects no age. You're buddy Dan probably has a higher probability of not making that kind of mistake because he is consciously thinking about.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

Dogpilot,

I am that guy, both physically and mentally. Having no paper anymore, insurance considers me a passenger. I carefully explain to pilots I fly with my limitations and that they are PIC. I have always taught by mostly talking anyway.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

akaviator wrote:…. I watched a beautiful RV-8 take off out of KSZP, snap an upwind then downwind leg and exit the AO. Hour later he returns with a perfect wheel landing and taxi to the fuel pumps. He climbed out and was definitely in the age group mentioned above. Stud pilot for sure.....


Reminds me of an older dude who flies an RV8 out of the next airport over from mine.
Nice guy, and he handles the airplane beautifully....
unfortunately he routinely cuts people off in the pattern, pulls out for takeoff right in front of landing traffic, etc etc.
Dunno if he isn't aware or just doesn't care...either way, he's a real hazard. #-o
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

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Last edited by dogpilot on Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

hotrod180 wrote:
akaviator wrote:…. I watched a beautiful RV-8 take off out of KSZP, snap an upwind then downwind leg and exit the AO. Hour later he returns with a perfect wheel landing and taxi to the fuel pumps. He climbed out and was definitely in the age group mentioned above. Stud pilot for sure.....


Reminds me of an older dude who flies an RV8 out of the next airport over from mine.
Nice guy, and he handles the airplane beautifully....
unfortunately he routinely cuts people off in the pattern, pulls out for takeoff right in front of landing traffic, etc etc.
Dunno if he isn't aware or just doesn't care...either way, he's a real hazard. #-o



Being a jerk transcends all age groups! :lol:
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

My policy went up by 1/3 this fall and it sounds like it'll go up more for another year or two.

I found Flyingjack's experience interesting as I am insured by Old Republic. I bought my 182 about 2-1/2 years ago and was actually looking for a 180/185 but I only had about 37 hrs of TW time. After long discussions with one of the good folks at Jack White Insurance, I stumbled upon a great straight tail 182 on floats. This was probably fortuitous because at that time Old Republic was the only insurer that would even consider insuring me in a Skywagon on wheels. I guess Old Republic at that time considered the main risk to be floats as that was how my policy was priced and I had a couple hundred hours of float time. Boy, I'd really be stuck now if they have become TW averse.

I also discovered that Old Republic is "older pilot" averse. I tried to add one of my friends to my policy who is ten times the pilot that I am, but was turned down because he is 77. He has 24k+ hours, tons of TW time, ATP, CFII, etc., plus he is in great health. He is not float rated and I was only looking for coverage on wheels, but they wouldn't do it. If they only knew how much more capable he is than I am......
Last edited by pipeliner on Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

Old Republic Insurance will not insure you for solo flight age 75 or older. Rates aren’t terrible but I will probably have to switch my TW insurance once I hit about 500 tw hours.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

Good Lord willing, we all get there one day. I had no idea this was a thing. Guess there’s some self insured old timers flying around. Maybe more to follow.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

Just got my insurance renewal quote back and my premium stayed exactly the same as last year. I'm pleased with that!
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

“ Just got my insurance renewal quote back and my premium stayed exactly the same as last year. I'm pleased with that!”

And might we ask that you state your age please?

Thanks,

Tommy
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

Spoke with Avemco a couple days ago, they said they are not increasing their rates this year. I have a friend over 75 who also insures with them, he has not been informed of an increase.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

Have any of you seen age limitations in the open pilot clause of your policy? Most I’ve seen have hour and rating limitations but I haven’t noticed any age limits. Yet....

Makes me wonder if two guys are partners in an airplane and one is older than the other if it would be beneficial to put it in the youngsters name. Hypothetically speaking of course.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

TommyN wrote:“ Just got my insurance renewal quote back and my premium stayed exactly the same as last year. I'm pleased with that!”

And might we ask that you state your age please?

Thanks,

Tommy


You can ask. :D
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Insurance vs getting old

Flying Dave wrote:Have any of you seen age limitations in the open pilot clause of your policy? Most I’ve seen have hour and rating limitations but I haven’t noticed any age limits. Yet....

Makes me wonder if two guys are partners in an airplane and one is older than the other if it would be beneficial to put it in the youngsters name. Hypothetically speaking of course.


Dave, if you're not named insured on an aircraft, the insurance company can come after you for recovery of the loss if they deem it's your fault through subrogation.

The asset and named insured, not the operator, is being covered under the open pilot clause.

My step pop won't instruct anyone in their personal plane unless they put him on as named insured - so their insurance company can't come after him to pay for anything if the plane gets bent up or causes damage to anything else.
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Re: Insurance vs getting old

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Last edited by dogpilot on Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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