Thanks for all the responses.

And to those that mention like scenarios, Thanks I liked looking at the links. There is several like scenarios under the local Class Charlie, Some charted private strips have pre arranged op procedures also. There just isn't any NEARLY as close to either Fairchild or International as I will be.

And you also have helped me learn about the essence of my question which is problems associated with landing off airport right adjacent to a Class Charlie airport.

mtv wrote:TexasNick,

There is NOTHING lowly about a Piper J-3. Great little airplane, and superior in many ways to so many other aircraft.

As to 58 Skylane's reference to the Charlie airspace thing, here's the regulation:

§ 91.130 Operations in Class C airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operation in Class C airspace must be conducted in compliance with this section and §91.129. For the purpose of this section, the primary airport is the airport for which the Class C airspace area is designated. A satellite airport is any other airport within the Class C airspace area.

(b) Traffic patterns. No person may take off or land an aircraft at a satellite airport within a Class C airspace area except in compliance with FAA arrival and departure traffic patterns.

(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class C airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:

(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

(2) Departing flight. Each person—

(i) From the primary airport or satellite airport with an operating control tower must establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the control tower, and thereafter as instructed by ATC while operating in the Class C airspace area; or

(ii) From a satellite airport without an operating control tower, must establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class C airspace area as soon as practicable after departing.

(d) Equipment requirements. Unless otherwise authorized by the ATC having jurisdiction over the Class C airspace area, no person may operate an aircraft within a Class C airspace area designated for an airport unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215.

(e) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual flight, as appropriate

So, IF the ATC specialist is willing to stick his/her neck out, and let you into the Charlie airspace, it's fine. You'll also find controllers who don't feel like being that benevolent.

FWIW

MTV

Yep, good on ya, MTV.

Appreciate your time and effort on the above information I already knew. I was simply passing along information from another thread about Class C with no transponder.

In Fairbanks, I operated routinely (as did several others) literally UNDER the traffic pattern for Fairbanks International's main runway, and took off many times right TOWARD their runway, within a half mile or less. This was operating off the Chena River, and is quite routine. There should be no surprises with ATC when it comes to this kind of operation, but it is a good idea to give them a heads up, just so they know you're going to start this kind of op.

58,

The no transponder issue isn't REAL simple. In Anchorage, for example, ATC wants at least a 30 minute prior notification for any operation involving a no transponder a/c. And, they don't want that to be a regular thing.

Point is, it's at the discretion of the ATC specialist on watch, and if that person doesn't want to take the responsibility, they don't have to.

MTV

mtv wrote:
58,

The no transponder issue isn't REAL simple. In Anchorage, for example, ATC wants at least a 30 minute prior notification for any operation involving a no transponder a/c. And, they don't want that to be a regular thing.

Point is, it's at the discretion of the ATC specialist on watch, and if that person doesn't want to take the responsibility, they don't have to.

MTV

Yep.......great, got your point. But on the other thread, some seem to paint a different picture like it CAN be "REAL" simple. I take it, it all depends on where your at and who your talking to.

Yup,

MTV

XKV8R wrote:Thanks for all the responses.

And to those that mention like scenarios, Thanks I liked looking at the links. There is several like scenarios under the local Class Charlie, Some charted private strips have pre arranged op procedures also. There just isn't any NEARLY as close to either Fairchild or International as I will be.

And you also have helped me learn about the essence of my question which is problems associated with landing off airport right adjacent to a Class Charlie airport.

There's no reason to deal with Fairchild, they don't own any airspace. Kind of peculiar for that area, GEG owns all of it. Back when this started Fairchild insisted on being a class C even though they don't qualify for one, begged and pleaded. So the FAA included Fairchild in the class C. End result was FAA gave them no airspace, like a class D would have. You want to make contact with GEG tower manager and tell them what you want to do. You're just telling ATC what you're doing, you're not asking. It's not FAA's role to say yes or no. One of the supervisors here at KBIL was a staff specialist at GEG for about 10 years. He wrote the procedures now in use there. If you want I can put you in touch with him, send me a PM. What will happen is that you will tell them where your strip is located. Since you're within the surface area you have to follow the weather rules as if you were at the primary airport. If GEG is IFR then you are IFR, no matter what the actual weather is at your strip. You will need permission to takeoff or land, because you are within the class C. Not a clearance, but permission. Usually stated as to report airborne. If you have an aircraft that doesn't have an electrical system you can get a waiver that must be renewed annually. No transponder ops are a pain in the ass because ATC is required to separate you from IFR aircraft, within the class C. This will cause you delays as ATC knows they are dealing with a no transponder aircraft. After your strip is in operation for a month or two the controllers will get to know you so when you call up saying you want to land at the Smith Ranch ATC will know what to expect and it should go pretty smooth.

Bonanza Man wrote:
There's no reason to deal with Fairchild, they don't own any airspace. Kind of peculiar for that area, GEG owns all of it. Back when this started Fairchild insisted on being a class C even though they don't qualify for one, begged and pleaded. So the FAA included Fairchild in the class C. End result was FAA gave them no airspace, like a class D would have. You want to make contact with GEG tower manager and tell them what you want to do. You're just telling ATC what you're doing, you're not asking. It's not FAA's role to say yes or no. One of the supervisors here at KBIL was a staff specialist at GEG for about 10 years. He wrote the procedures now in use there. If you want I can put you in touch with him, send me a PM. What will happen is that you will tell them where your strip is located. Since you're within the surface area you have to follow the weather rules as if you were at the primary airport. If GEG is IFR then you are IFR, no matter what the actual weather is at your strip. You will need permission to takeoff or land, because you are within the class C. Not a clearance, but permission. Usually stated as to report airborne. If you have an aircraft that doesn't have an electrical system you can get a waiver that must be renewed annually. No transponder ops are a pain in the ass because ATC is required to separate you from IFR aircraft, within the class C. This will cause you delays as ATC knows they are dealing with a no transponder aircraft. After your strip is in operation for a month or two the controllers will get to know you so when you call up saying you want to land at the Smith Ranch ATC will know what to expect and it should go pretty smooth.

Thanks Bonanza Man that is good info, I will look forward to calling the Controller at Gieger and talking to him about it. Maybe I'll try to get a tour of the new tower at the same time. They must have quite the view from up there, what is it over 200' ?

Another cool tower to work in would be the new Boise (KBOI) tower. It's pretty tall too with views of the mountains to the north, the Owyhee's to the S/SW and the surrounding valleys. I sure would like to get a tour of that one!

Just give them a call Skylane, Last time I called Spokane tower they said "come on over and see us" and I got in my truck and went and got a tour, and that was after 911. As you know the controllers are great people and it was a great experience!

XKV8R wrote:Just give them a call skylane, Last time I called Spokane tower they said "come on over and see us" and I got in my truck and went and got a tour, and that was after 911. As you know the controllers are great people and it was a great experience!

I'll do that. I'll try to get some people together and go at once. The controllers at Boise are very helpful and friendly. During my flight training a couple years ago, I was afraid to go over to Boise from Caldwell. But after getting enough courage, I went over there and sure enough, they treated me just fine and was very helpful. I made a few stumbles, but they help me along.

Then I went down to SoCal in Dec 08, and I was terrified of going into that area (LA Terminal). But after picking up VFR flight following north of Edward's AFB, it was simple easy going into Fullerton. And the controllers at Fullerton were fantastic, too. My first time in a busy terminal area was a big wake up call, but got the hang of it pretty easily.

My second trip to SoCal in Dec 09 was even better! I've been wanting to fly around LA a little more, but was very intimidated by the LAX Class Bravo and the very quick radio communications. On Christmas day (not much traffic, mind you), I said F it, I'm going for it! I looked up all the proper procedure's for the "LAX Mini Route", programed the route in my 396, and off I went. Turned out, it was very very simple!! Nerve racking at first (when talking to LAX Tower), but after the second time, it was a piece of cake! Most every one of the controllers in that whole area (LA Terminal) was absolutely helpful and friendly. It almost felt like you were talking to a friend or someone you had met in person. There was only one time I was talking to a pretty excited controller, but I think it was because he was talking to another pilot in a small plane that spoke very broken English and wasn't following directions from the controller very well.

But all in all, it was a fantastic experience flying in the L.A. area!! Had lot's of great weather, Flew with Glidergeek a couple of times, and even went out to Catalina Island a few times.

My advice to any one going into a very busy area like L.A. for the first time, would be prepared!! Know where your going (I honestly can not imagine flying in an area like L.A. without a good GPS that shows all the different airspace outlines, especially flying around LAX Class Bravo). Have the latest Sec/Terminal maps. Know where the reporting points are (better yet, have them programmed in your GPS if they have a code). Most importantly, don't be scared! Ask for help when you need it.

thinking back to when I at one time had my airplane hangared at GEG. I remember when I was getting clearance for takeoff I would hear a call in from a guy that was getting ready to take off from his grass strip inside the classC. I was on ground freq at the time. It was like he was calling in and doing everything I was.