Have you gotten a look at the cam yet? The wear pattern on the push rod indicate that it was still turning as it is meant to do. I am pulling for you Rob.

Glidergeek wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:Well, worst case. It is all toast! Top gone, cam gone, 1000 hr and gone. Really bummed

Rob what do you mean top gone? Understand cam but top of what? Sorry for your loss, it can be fixed.

Cylinders had a lot of rust damage from sitting. One of the 3 we took off today was scuffed pretty bad. Compressions were 78-80. Good. But with it this far apart I will do it right.

I don't want to be the richest guy in the grave yard.

Good day

Thank you all for the good thoughts! I am lucky this didn't break in the backcountry!!

Bummer man!
Hopefully they can get it back together while you are on your trip and all will be well......except for the wallet.
Reading this makes me think its time to start a routine oil analysis.

Rob, I had to replace my Cam shaft about 2 + years ago. I went with Firewall Forwards Centi Lube. It has holes drilled at optimum points in order to allow oil to get to the top of the engine quickly. So far so good from my point of view.
http://www.firewallforward.com/tnfwf2008b_004.htm

Good luck with your engine.
Bill

That sure sucks. Sorry to hear that.

OregonMaule wrote:Thank you all for the good thoughts! I am lucky this didn't break in the backcountry!!

Crap Rob, sorry to hear it was a mess in there. Hope you get it back up and running cheap and soon.

And yes, glad you found out the safe way, and not here.

If you have rust in one of the cylinders, you could have it in all. If the valve stem has rust, it might have had something to do with it. Do whatever it takes to make you feel comfortable flying it or it will sit and we won't get to see all the photos of your adventures. Good Luck!

Thanks for all the good wishes.

If you are not doing oil analysis, cutting your filter, washing it and running a magnet through the solvent, you should.

My engine was running perfect! Oil analysis tipped me off, washing the filter and running the magnet through it confirmed a problem. Didn't look bad but it is and that is the scary part. If you let these things go to long you will become a glider. Not good over mountains or water.

Cheers...Rob

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:My condolences Rob, but on the plus side this is kind of like having a car quit in the driveway.

So what's in store for the rebuild? Are you going with just new jugs, slugs, and cam stuff, or can you squeak some more power out of it with some mods? Port and polish?
Chris

Thanks Chris, I am going for the reman to factory new specs. Work done by Premier Aircraft Engines at Troutdale. Great warranty. Lycoming warranty is 2 years and done. Based on 40 hours a month, Premier warranty extends up to 50 months. That is 2000hr or 50 months, which ever comes first.

From Premier to Me:
I have attached Service Bulletin 240V that specifies what must be replaced.

We overhaul your crankshaft, counterweights, connecting rods, rocker arms, crankcase, mount legs and accessory housing. The internal gears, oil pump housing, inner cylinder baffles, cylinder drain tubes, intake tubes, rocker covers, hardware, etc. are based on condition. For the most part everything else is replaced new.

Your welcome to stop by anytime and check. Once we get the engine apart and cleaned up it’s nice to go through all the parts with you so you understand the ins and outs. END

I will have the Prop inspected, resealed and painted. Prop governor rebuilt. No HP upgrades.

Cheers

Engine and prop at there respective shops. I head to Africa Thursday back home October 16th, should have the motor back in by October 26th I hope.




Cheers...Rob

Sounds good, Rob. Have fun in Africa.

I had a PAE engine. No leaks, ran great. I'm sure yours will turn out just as good.

gb

Southern Boy wrote:My personal rule of thumb is that if the amount of metal is enough to cover Lincoln's head on a penny, then a teardown is in order. I've had 3 complete engine failures. Two of them were catastrophic internal failures. It ain't a lot of fun.

Consider going with a dime.

Thanks GB and Pat. GB you make 6 guys I now know with PAE engines. Plus a flight school all happy.

I'll send pics from the dark continent.

I got a look at the cam and tappets out of the block. 1 lobe is missing probably .150 Two tappets real ugly. I think I will have more power when it is back together. PAE says 2 weeks. The prop is done.

Cheers...Rob

Rob,

Just for a point of reference, ONLY Lycoming can "remanufacture" your engine. The term remanufacture implies a zero time logbook, and effectively a new engine.

The engine shop you're working with may in fact be a great shop, but they cannot legally rebuild a "new" engine, and your engine will still have it's old logbook and history.

That may or may not be a big deal, but oftentimes folks wonder why Lycoming overhauls are more expensive. The answer is simple: They are building you a new engine, in effect. Anything else is a FIELD OVERHAUL, not a remanufacture.

If I were going to have my engine overhauled right now, I'd have a field overhaul done, by the way, so I'm not slamming your engine shop or many others. But, what you're having done isn't a "remanufacture" by definition.

Congratulations in finding the problems early, as opposed to grenading the engine, which can get REALLy expensive,

MTV

mtv wrote:Rob,

Just for a point of reference, ONLY Lycoming can "remanufacture" your engine. The term remanufacture implies a zero time logbook, and effectively a new engine.

The engine shop you're working with may in fact be a great shop, but they cannot legally rebuild a "new" engine, and your engine will still have it's old logbook and history.

That may or may not be a big deal, but oftentimes folks wonder why Lycoming overhauls are more expensive. The answer is simple: They are building you a new engine, in effect. Anything else is a FIELD OVERHAUL, not a remanufacture.

If I were going to have my engine overhauled right now, I'd have a field overhaul done, by the way, so I'm not slamming your engine shop or many others. But, what you're having done isn't a "remanufacture" by definition.

Congratulations in finding the problems early, as opposed to grenading the engine, which can get REALLy expensive,

MTV

Sorry MTV, as a point of reference, only Lycoming can REBUILD your engine to new tolerances and give you a zero-time logbook.

They (Lycoming) haven't used the term "remanufacture" since 2001 because it doesn't differenciate their overhauls completely from other shops. They offer New, Rebuilt, and Overhauled engines. Their "overhauled" motors do not come with new camshafts and usually contain less "new" parts than others' remanufactured engines. Lycoming overhauls are not more expensive because they are building you a new engine, they are more expensive because they are THE manufacture and part of an Aerospace giant, Textron.
Their new and "rebuilt" motors are considered zero-time. Their overhauls are like anyone else's. In fact Lycomings' specs for balancing on their "new" motors doesn't meet that of many "boutique" shops

Other shops may use the term "remanufacture" if they choose, though it doesn't have any specific meaning to the FAA, it may to their customers who want an engine built to "new" limits using new and old parts. They are only "overhauls" to the stone-age FAA. There are no "remanufacture" police that will show up on your door and make you take your sign down but they will if you use the term "rebuilt". There is no FAA term "FIELD" overhaul to differenciate between a high-end shop and a lone A&P who has taken to rebuilding motors either.

Advisory Circular 3-29-07 and 91.421

Points taken.

However, if you attend the Lycoming Piston Engine Service School, you will see what Lycoming does with an engine that comes in for an "overhaul", as opposed to what many overhaul facilities do. The entire top end of a lycoming engine goes in the crusher when the engine is dissassembled for overhaul. Lycoming never re-uses cylinder assemblies, or many other parts. I've been to the piston engine school, and I've had a "field overhaul" of a Lycoming engine. I'd be happy with either, as I noted in my initial post.

But what Lycoming replaces in an "overhaul" is VERY extensive, and very few overhaul shops ALWAYS replace ALL top end parts. THAT is why Lycoming overhauls are typically more expensive than a lot of the competition--you are guaranteed all new top end parts. Lycoming parts, in fact, are not necessarily more expensive than the competitor's.

My point was simply that you can use whatever terminology you like, but as you noted, the term "remanufactured" is meaningless in this context.

Continental Motors, last I checked, DOES still "remanufacture" their engines, which ensures all parts meet new tolerances, and the engine gets a zero time logbook.

MTV

mtv wrote:But what Lycoming replaces in an "overhaul" is VERY extensive, and very few overhaul shops ALWAYS replace ALL top end parts. THAT is why Lycoming overhauls are typically more expensive than a lot of the competition--you are guaranteed all new top end parts. Lycoming parts, in fact, are not necessarily more expensive than the competitor's.

MTV

Even comparing apples to apples, you may be surprised. I just went thru this in 2008 and things may have changed. In my 0-360, we opted for NEW Lycoming cylinders, camshaft and accessory gears...all of these an up-charge...Lycoming parts cost what they cost. I even squeezed a new flywheel out of the deal. We had our cases, crank and rods oh'd and reinstalled. Western Skyways did the work and offered us a 54 month prorated warranty. I saved somewhere between $2300 and $4000 (depending on how you skin the cat) over a Lycoming Factory Overhaul (not rebuild) which only gave me new cylinders and a 2-yr. warranty. It is true the Factory overhaul carries more weight at re-sale than other shops, but the higher price for their overhaul in my experience was clearly not a function of them showering my engine with brand new parts! They even have a clause that you must pay a $1500 core charge premium if your engine serial number has not been thru their system in the previous 25 years! "Its liability you know".. YMMV. I do concede that their policies do fluctuate yearly depending on how much revenue they must generate in a given economy.

I'm not trying argue here but I see it as being the same reason the Ford dealership charges the higher price to fix your truck than the shop on the corner.