I hit on this in another thread about the Avid MkIV HH. So I've been giving him some info you guys mentioned and he came back saying he is also interested in building a kit. Here's what he's looking for in a plane...and since I'm not smart on LSAs I figured I'd post it here...

LSA
Taildragger
Basic to advanced avionics/radios
Folding Wings
8'w x 8'h or less
STOL w/100+cruise
16k+ service ceiling
300' t/o, landing or less
3+hrs of fuel
All the engine he can get
Plexiglass floor / aerobatic a plus

Check out the Avid Magnum.. here's a builders website I found with a google search..
http://www.virgilstucker.com/

Also here's the factory spec sheet
http://www.avidflyeraircraft.com/avid_a ... _sheet.doc

It's just like the MKIV but was built to accept a Lycoming and is quite a bit bigger. Also the Kitfox Outback and Supersport are great airplanes.

All the rights to Avid Flyer were recently bought by a guy named Brett McKinney in Wisconsin. Despite the rumors that all support from Avid is gone, Brett is thriving and working to make Avid his full time occupation. He can be reached at Airdale Sport Plane and Supply 715-369-1343. I've ordered several parts recently and recieved them in a timely manner. His goal is to start producing Avid Plus http://www.avidflyeraircraft.com/fatavid.php Kits sometime in the future.

http://www.airdale.com/ Brand new website
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/

These two companies are really the thing out there with a true folding wing design. Several others advertise as having folding wings but it invloves disconnecting control rods, fuel lines, ect. On my bird I pull two pins, remove the turtle deck with 6 fasteners, fold the wings back and install the support the rods that hold the wings folded back. I can land, fold up my wings, and load my airplane on the trailer and drive off with it in 20 minutes and go down the freeway at 65mph.

I have been around Avids and Rans, the Rans is a better plane hands down with full factory support, when I step down to lsa might be soon it will be to a Rans.

I have a kitfox 4 with a 912 does all the above except no plexiglass floor. The wing fold up is as simple as avid describes. I believe what pitman says is also true the rans s7 and the highlander are probably better planes but you can buy three kitfox/ avid for the price of one those.

My brother just went through the same exact requirements. He finally realized that you are not going to build any of these for under $25,000. I tried him from the get-go that he needed to forget about the folding wing option. If he wanted to fly soon to look at at Champs, Chiefs, Taylorcraft, J-3, Ercoupe or any other older certified plane if he wanted to keep his budget around $25K. Granted a person can find partially built kits out there for that and much less but they all need work.

Complete planes and unfinished kits that meet his wants pop up on barn stormers occasionally. They don't last long. One example is a couple months ago. A a kitfox series 5 unstarted kit with a new in the box Rorax 912-S for $28,000. When I first saw the add it already had a sold notice on it.

A couple days later I met the guy that bought that kit. He said when he saw the add he called and the guy said the add was only one hour old and he already had several calls all asking if he was sure that was a 912-S new in the crate.

This fellow I met said he asked the seller if he would take 27 and the seller said yes.

I have seen several finished Model 4 kitfox with Rotax 912 in the mid 20's advertised here in the past year. They usually don't last more that a day or so.

Here's one that is currently advertised. I have been wondering why it has lasted as long as it has. It has the Jabber engine and I am not familier with them so don't know for sure if it will meet his high altitude wants.
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_ ... sic+4.html

Moral is, watch barnstormers like a hawk and don't hesitate when your dream plane pops up.

pitman11 wrote:I have been around Avids and Rans, the Rans is a better plane hands down with full factory support, when I step down to lsa might be soon it will be to a Rans.

What are you basing your "hands down" opinion on? A factory Rans costs 100 GRAND!!! For his budget and requirements he's asking for that is not very realistic. Your comparing apples and oranges here.

my basing is the poster said he is interested in a kit, the rans kit is in the $40s not $100s, and he does not post budget so how do you know? for $45,000 you have a new plane thats worth in the $70,000 look at the requirements 100+ cruise 16K+ Ceiling most avids in the low bucks have the 582 cant do that, I'm not putting you're plane down, but i will put the 582 down.

He posted a budget of the 25K range in another thread...thought it was in this one also.

Something like this would be perfect



Search Results



KITFOX 5 OUTBACK. • $39,500 • UP FOR GRABS • Best Kitfox in North America!Professionally built factory demonstrator. 125hp Cont IO-240 engine with Sensenich prop. TTE 698. TTAF 1150. Patroller doors, leather seats, Dynon efis, VM 1000 eng monitor, Garmin 155xl gps, Sony CD/FM stereo, plus much more on panel. Grove gear wi. big 8.50 x 6 tires. NDH. Always hangared. A no-kidding, head-turning, stump-jumping, back country machine. Would make a fabulous floatplane. Seriously priced for a fast sale. None better. You could not duplicate this aircraft as equipped for less than 60K.

Thanks for the info so far guys. I'm going over to his place tonight and we'll be discussing this more.

One big difference between all the folding wing designs and those that don't: chord depth. Wing folding requires a fairly narrow wing chord in order to be road legal. Whether or not this is a disadvantage depends on the mission, I know the Avid Magnum (Lycoming powered) I built and flew 40 hrs in landed in the high 40's, like 48 or so. It had a big span but the chord made it a comparatively hot landing machine compared to my current S-7S with a T-Craft type wing chord. To balance that out of course, the convinence and utility of quick folding wings have to be experienced to be believed, it can be incredibly handy!

I'd like to see someone come out with a over road width/fat wing folding design, screw the road width limitations, it'd be handy hangaring and moving around the shop, when trailered get an over width permit.

Tadpole,
How about a Vagabond with a C85? Light Sport and probably pretty close to $25,000.
Maybe I'm a little biased.
Dave

AvidFlyer wrote:......
KITFOX 5 OUTBACK. • $39,500 • UP FOR GRABS • Best Kitfox in North America!Professionally built factory demonstrator. 125hp Cont IO-240 engine with Sensenich prop......

If this is the same one that was in the magazines about 10-12 years ago, it's red & black and real sharp looking. They started out with an O-200 on the nose, then upgraded to the IO-240. Considering I paid $36K for my C150/150TD 2 years ago, the price looks about right, esp if you could dicker it down a bit. The trouble for your buddy, Tadpole, is that it is not sport-pilot legal with a gross weight of 1550 (according to a write-up back in 1997).

Eric

d.grimm wrote:Tadpole,
How about a Vagabond with a C85? Light Sport and probably pretty close to $25,000.
Maybe I'm a little biased.
Dave

Ummm, he wants folding wings.

He wants to keep it in his barn at his place and he has a trailer he can put it on to move it around if need be. He has room to operate one in and out of his property if he does a little work on the land.

Tadpole, is your buddy LSA savy? If not, and he looks at a finished Kitfox, ask the seller if maximum gross weight is over 1320 pounds. If the answer is no, then make sure it has never had a cockpit adjustable prop (CAP) prop installed. Of course check the aircraft and engine log books and weight and balance sheet too before purchasing. Those are the two things that will kick a kitfox out of the LSA definition and it can not be flown under sport pilot rules.

Finished kitfox models I through IV will have a Max gross weight of 1200 pounds or less. Finished models V on up most likely have a max gross weight above 1320 if they were completed before the LSA and sport pilot rules were in place.

The gottcha with LSA is once a plane has operated outside the LSA definition it can never go back. If he gets an unfinished kit he can set the max gross weight at 1320.

If he has to have folding wings, I think its a Kitfox (or Avid). Highlander would work, but probably out of his price range.

Try to find a Kitfox speedster with an 80hp rotax. I friend has one. He bashes all over Idaho, does loops and rolls, keeps it on a trailer (off airport), and will easily cruise +100 with a decent range. It will meet LSA requirements, and doubtful it will have a constant speed prop. That service ceiling is going to require a turbo, and BullyHawk sells a conversion kit for the 912 to do that - IF it ends up being needed.

The plane is right now in the hangar across from mine and can take pics if you want.

80hp Kitfox Model IV Speedster in the right hands...

My kitfox is the only way I can afford to fly. I paid 25,000 for it with 102 hrs Rotax 912 ul (80 hp). I burn 4 gal an hour and cruise 105 mph on 87 octane. The plane weighs 649lbs empty and gross at 1200lbs, that means you can fill full of gas, 26 gal and put 2 200lb guys in it ok one 200lb guy and one 196lb guy and cruise for six hrs and have a 1/2 hr reserve. Any way here is a video of me landing in my back yard.

If your buddy is looking for a good deal on a bush plane I've got one for him. I have a Zenith 701 with an Rotax 80HP project that needs completed. It was a flying plane that got damaged. I was hired to rebuild it and the guy died before it could be completed. I ended up with the plane. It's 90% complete and I haven't got the time to finish it. I want $22,500 for the complete package, engine and all.

If he is interested call or e-mail:

Rick

760-378-3870

[email protected]

701driver wrote:If your buddy is looking for a good deal on a bush plane I've got one for him. I have a Zenith 701 with an Rotax 80HP project that needs completed. It was a flying plane that got damaged. I was hired to rebuild it and the guy died before it could be completed. I ended up with the plane. It's 90% complete and I haven't got the time to finish it. I want $22,500 for the complete package, engine and all.

If he is interested call or e-mail:

Rick

760-378-3870

[email protected]

I sent this to him, but I think he wants more engine than the 80hp Rotax..and if it's not a taildragger he's not interested at all.