Appears to be marketed towards our niche market... Rans posted this on Facebook today...



RANS is proud to announce the S-20, in bare bones form, will be shown at Airventure 2013! This plane plans to be the successor to the famous Coyote II S-6S. The S-6ES will remain in production. That is a tall order to fill, but as you become familiar with S-20 a lot of great ideas and features will make this plane one to consider if you are looking for a side by side high-wing that can equal or exceed the performance of the S-6S. Outstanding features include:
All welded Steel Fuselage and tail.
Flat aluminum landing gear made of 7075, CNC machined, heat treated and shot peened for long life.
Universal Fuselage, landing gear can be switched from Tail Wheel to Trike.
Sliding seats, and large door opening, to allow easy ingress and egress
Welded steel door frames
Large easy access baggage compartment
The wing and tail are directly from the S-7S, featuring one-piece fully CNC machined stamped ribs, CNC machined spars, aero servo ailerons, and 26 Gallon fuel system.
RANS will be accepting orders for the S-20 at Airventure 2013. Please stop by our booth to inspect the un-covered airframe of this soon to be legendary aircraft.

Been watching. Looks cool. They should offer that tail on the s7.

Rans had an S6-S fuselage with the expanded baggage compartment at Oshkosh last year. I was looking for a completed plane at Sun-N-Fun this year, but it was a no show. I figured they had put development of the plane on the back burner, so I went ahead and bought a Maule MX7-180C. I'm happy with the Maule, but I'll be watching this new Rans design with interest. If I ever sell the Maule, I would seriously consider this design. It even looks like a smaller sibling to the Maule.

I've long called my S6 a mini-Maule.

Emmet,
Since the S20 use the S7 tail I bet the round rudder would bolt right on. Without rounded wing tips though it looks a little out of place. If I were to build one and wanted the round tail I'd build in wing tip bows.

What's the difference between "Taildragger" and "Classic Taildragger"?

EDIT: Is it just the tail?

75 years

SamIntel wrote:What's the difference between "Taildragger" and "Classic Taildragger"?

Interesting, and in case anyone hasn't noticed, Randy Schlitter of Rans has been doing his thing in the kitplane world longer then anyone except maybe Dick Van whats his name of RV fame. Always somewhat low profile and understated, and located in Kansas for christs sake (not that there is anything wrong with that, but not good creds for bragging up a off airport/bushplane type craft).

The gear looks real low drag, but I for one would find it hard to give up the cub style gear, expecially with the RAGE shock struts. As sure as I am that it will hold up well enough for for rough operations, I am even surer that the cub style gear will hold up even better! I hope they plan a cub type gear option, the rest of it looks pretty cool, I wonder if they plan a tandem version

SamIntel wrote:What's the difference between "Taildragger" and "Classic Taildragger"?

EDIT: Is it just the tail?

Basically yes, just the rounded rudder. Not sure if the elevators will be rounded or not. No difference otherwise.

I guess they have gotten tired of being spanked by Just and Kitfox in that class....

courierguy wrote: The gear looks real low drag, but I for one would find it hard to give up the cub style gear, expecially with the RAGE shock struts. As sure as I am that it will hold up well enough for for rough operations, I am even surer that the cub style gear will hold up even better! I hope they plan a cub type gear option, the rest of it looks pretty cool, I wonder if they plan a tandem version

Gotta agree! The new S-20 looks pretty cool, but I'd been bugging someone (wrote John Roberts a note) anyone to rig an S-6 with Roberts gear. It finally arrived - the photos that is....on the same day as the S-20 was "premiered." This is being built up in Alaska (surprise!!!)

S6 on Roberts gear is going to win the off-airport contest every time - and win the Light Sport Bad-Assery Award this year as well:

To me, the "classic" rounded Cub style rudder is nice looking, but the non-classic angular rudder looks just as pretty on this design. If they're not going to offer rounded tips for the wings and elevators, then calling it a "classic" by just rounding the rudder wouldn't cut it for me.

I think RANS will have another winning airplane whichever tail is on it.

I suspect the debate as to the superiority of the Roberts gear is best left to another thread.

Back to the original post, the S-20. I think it will be another winner in the Rans line.
They have created a design that will appeal to a wide variety of customers and made it fairly customizable without a lot of expensive mods.
The gear is moveable fore and aft like a kit fox to allow it to be configured trike or T/D without additional weldments.
They added a big baggage area to allow for a ton of camping gear. It has more fuel for longer trips and it can support phat tires without additional mods.
I like that they added the S-7 wing. At altitude, the S-7 wing seems to work better than the S-6 wing.
I'm anxious to see a completed one in the field.

"I guess they have gotten tired of being spanked by Just and Kitfox in that class.... "
I totally agree with Av8r3400. JUST and Kitfox have been the main focus for guys wanting a side by side air jeep. I had even gone to the JUST factory during my search of an LSA 'bushbird'. It is probably the best in its category, at least in my opinion, out there right now. I am betting this S-20 will give it a run for its money though. The Kitfox is on par with the JUST and there are a lot of them out there but I seemed to like the Highlander better. If I wouldn't have gotten a decent deal on an RANS S7 I would have the JUST or Kitfox in my hangar.
Event though I prefer a tandem aircraft the spousal unit gets less queezy in a side by side. Although her favorite of my planes is the Champ on floats.
Since I am always looking for my next 'toy' this S-20 will be on my list. I like the RANS products and as Tom has stated, they have been in business a long time and put out an amazing plane.

OT... I will have to admit that the Backcountry SuperCubs Outlaw I LSA has gotten my attention and I am impatiently waiting for further news of its performance and specs. That darn sentence at the end of the description of its development has me on pins and needles. 'Please do not call to discuss the model's development and configuration.' I bet I check their site almost weekly for updates.........none.....maybe if I make it to Oshkosh they will have more info available.

S-12Flyer wrote:I suspect the debate as to the superiority of the Roberts gear is best left to another thread.

Back to the original post, the S-20. I think it will be another winner in the Rans line.
They have created a design that will appeal to a wide variety of customers and made it fairly customizable without a lot of expensive mods.
The gear is moveable fore and aft like a kit fox to allow it to be configured trike or T/D without additional weldments.
They added a big baggage area to allow for a ton of camping gear. It has more fuel for longer trips and it can support phat tires without additional mods.
I like that they added the S-7 wing. At altitude, the S-7 wing seems to work better than the S-6 wing.
I'm anxious to see a completed one in the field.

I don't agree, this thread is all about the new S-20 and how it is being presented by RANS. As such, it's the perfect place to comment on what we know so far about the new bird. I will give Randy some free marketing advice (though some may say he has been doing just fine so far without my input ) and tell him to man that thing up, right from the start! Is it a grass airstrip cruiser or a real off airport bad ass (ROABA)? I hope they at least weld the fuselage tabs on for the Roberts gear, like they do currently for the S-7S kits, and I hope he pushes the fact that with a few extra cost options it will be capable of much more then grass strips, a real ROABA in other words, not a poser. Like I said, he's real low key, he needs to ratchet it up a bit, while still keeping it real.

Think of it.....a RANS factory baggage pod, fvg's of course, Cub type/Roberts gear, aux aft baggage door, extra fuel mod, all the mods the Cubs guys have found useful and practical and what a lot of us S-7S owners have also found worth doing. Sure, market it as pictured but glam it up a bit and make sure everyone knows it could be so much more with a few factory supplied (and approved) options. He could take some tips from Troy at Just Aircraft on marketing, nuff said.

courierguy wrote:

S-12Flyer wrote:I suspect the debate as to the superiority of the Roberts gear is best left to another thread.

Back to the original post, the S-20. I think it will be another winner in the Rans line.
They have created a design that will appeal to a wide variety of customers and made it fairly customizable without a lot of expensive mods.
The gear is moveable fore and aft like a kit fox to allow it to be configured trike or T/D without additional weldments.
They added a big baggage area to allow for a ton of camping gear. It has more fuel for longer trips and it can support phat tires without additional mods.
I like that they added the S-7 wing. At altitude, the S-7 wing seems to work better than the S-6 wing.
I'm anxious to see a completed one in the field.

I don't agree, this thread is all about the new S-20 and how it is being presented by RANS. As such, it's the perfect place to comment on what we know so far about the new bird. I will give Randy some free marketing advice (though some may say he has been doing just fine so far without my input ) and tell him to man that thing up, right from the start! Is it a grass airstrip cruiser or a real off airport bad ass (ROABA)? I hope they at least weld the fuselage tabs on for the Roberts gear, like they do currently for the S-7S kits, and I hope he pushes the fact that with a few extra cost options it will be capable of much more then grass strips, a real ROABA in other words, not a poser. Like I said, he's real low key, he needs to ratchet it up a bit, while still keeping it real.

Think of it.....a RANS factory baggage pod, fvg's of course, Cub type/Roberts gear, aux aft baggage door, extra fuel mod, all the mods the Cubs guys have found useful and practical and what a lot of us S-7S owners have also found worth doing. Sure, market it as pictured but glam it up a bit and make sure everyone knows it could be so much more with a few factory supplied (and approved) options. He could take some tips from Troy at Just Aircraft on marketing, nuff said.

Well I guess that not so veiled insult was pointed at me.
Interesting how so many S-7 and S-6 aircraft few into the backcountry over the past 12 years without Cub style gear.

Why not offer retractable slotted wings like the Just? Or maybe a whole bunch of carbon fibre like the Carbon Cub.
Maybe they can offer an EZ-flap. I'd love to have one on my little pretend S-7.
What the heck, while we're at it, a Swiss muffler is pretty cool too. ABW's and double puck brakes are a must on any real backcountry plane.

Some of us posers don't see the need for all that extra weight and drag of the Roberts gear to cruise to our manicured grass strips.
Not too many people find the need or desire to land on bowling ball sized rocks on a side hill strip at 8000 feet.
The Zenith 701/750 are very capable backcountry aircraft and use the same gear legs as the new S-20. There are plenty of Kitfoxs and Avids in the Backcountry as well on the same legs. But I suppose they are posers as well.

Throw enough money at any plane and you can make it an ROABA. But then why not just man up and buy a Carbon Cub?
I'm quite sure that Rans could produce a plane to compete with even a Carbon Cub. But Why would they? They obviously have a pretty good handle on the market and have managed to keep pace with it. I don't think their gaol was to offer a ROABA but more a real off airport capable aircraft with the potential for numerous mods as the owner sees fit.
All those mods the the cub guys can't live without are not factory mods. They are aftermarket fare. Just Aircraft and Carbon Cub are niche aircraft and only make a few models. And they produce them in limited numbers. Rans make substantially more models in far greater numbers. In addition, they also have a large line of bicycles.

Rans DID "ratchet it up" a bit. A big bit. The S-20 is on par with any LSA backcountry aircraft. And given the ingenuity and expertise of many on here, I think we will see a fair number of them in the coming years. Including, I'm sure, a few with Roberts gear.

BTW Last week my poser S-7 hauled myself and a friend to 18 different Utah Back country strips from 5000' to 8700" MSL in 80 to 105 degree heat. And not once did we see a blade of grass. (OK , Willow Flats has 1 foot tall wire grass on some spots.)

Actually judging by this hard landing of this 701, with a heavy clunky car engine and equally heavy pilot. It looks though the 7075 spring gear would stand up rather well in less than manicured bush strips.
advance to 2:55.

No insult intended, veiled or otherwise! Read my post again, I make it crystal clear that these mods or additions would be OPTIONAL for those that feel they would be beneficial. What advantage to RANS? How about a bigger slice of the market share, I mean they are in business to make money I assume? Once again, a thread on the new S-20 isn't the place to discuss how it's set up? It's an experimental/homebuilt, not like it's a set in stone production aircraft.

The Roberts gear mod BTW on the S-7 weighs NO more then the stock single leg system, if the RAGE shock strut is used it's a few pounds more. Draggier for sure, if left unfaired, faired fully very near the same. The Grove type single spring gear may or may not be lighter, too soon to say of course. I really like the low drag and simplicity of that (spring) gear, and in fact that type is going to be the stock gear offered on the backcountrycub Outlaw LSA, but with a Cub style gear as an option. I asked why they went with the spring gear and was told it was to highlight the fact that though it utilizes manually deployed slats to do it's magic, due to their placement and other factors it will land at a normal AOA thus no super heavy duty gear needed. Also, they wanted to highlight the fact that it will cruise at 130 mph (or top, can't remember, fast as hell anyway for being so slow) and what they are shooting for is the slowest and the fastest all in one bird, the biggest speed spread in other words.


I don't fly with the Roberts gear to intentionally land in boulders, I fly with it to make up for my sometimes poor judgement or failure to see bumps in a off airport landing, where it along with the 29's can make the difference between walking home or flying home! I really like the way it spreads out the stress on the fuselage over such a larger area then other types gear, the spring included.That brings up the fact that I feel there is some disagreement or confusion, by me anyway, on what constitutes an off airport site. I may be alone in thinking this way, but when I mean off airport I don't mean the Utah backcountry strips,Johnson Creek, Soldier Bar etc. or even Mile Hi. If I can google it on the internet and get lots of hits complete with numerous videos, along with detailed instructions on how and when to land it, it's an airstrip . Off airport/off airstrip (perhaps a more descriptive term) to me means landing places no one has landed before, ever, and you're going in cold. That is where the Cub type gear gives a pilot an extra tool in the box. Offering it as an option would be a natural I believe, if not of course various aftermarket providers will be more then happy to step in and meet the demand.

It will interesting to see if the S-20 airframe will be displayed at Oshkosh on Airstreaks, as I'm sure the Just Aircraft birds will be, they have a better handle on how to aggressively market an off airport/off airstrip aircraft then RANS has shown to date. And another thing..... I freeking have to go to Facebook these days to first hear about a new model aircraft? When did that happen

That's just how it went down. I heard it from Michele, Randy's girlfriend before i heard it from him. I've found her to be the quickest way to get info out of Rans.

As good as Rans is at building planes and bikes, they sure do leave a lot to be desired in the electronic media side of things.
Their web site is dated and awkward and not updated regularly.
As good as they are about incorporating new ideas into their aircraft, you would think they would do the same on their web-site.
Maybe they should hire Zane to bring their site into this millennium.

courierguy wrote:No insult intended, veiled or otherwise! Read my post again, I make it crystal clear that these mods or additions would be OPTIONAL for those that feel they would be beneficial. What advantage to RANS? How about a bigger slice of the market share, I mean they are in business to make money I assume? Once again, a thread on the new S-20 isn't the place to discuss how it's set up? It's an experimental/homebuilt, not like it's a set in stone production aircraft.

The Roberts gear mod BTW on the S-7 weighs NO more then the stock single leg system, if the RAGE shock strut is used it's a few pounds more. Draggier for sure, if left unfaired, faired fully very near the same. The Grove type single spring gear may or may not be lighter, too soon to say of course. I really like the low drag and simplicity of that (spring) gear, and in fact that type is going to be the stock gear offered on the backcountrycub Outlaw LSA, but with a Cub style gear as an option. I asked why they went with the spring gear and was told it was to highlight the fact that though it utilizes manually deployed slats to do it's magic, due to their placement and other factors it will land at a normal AOA thus no super heavy duty gear needed. Also, they wanted to highlight the fact that it will cruise at 130 mph (or top, can't remember, fast as hell anyway for being so slow) and what they are shooting for is the slowest and the fastest all in one bird, the biggest speed spread in other words.


I don't fly with the Roberts gear to intentionally land in boulders, I fly with it to make up for my sometimes poor judgement or failure to see bumps in a off airport landing, where it along with the 29's can make the difference between walking home or flying home! I really like the way it spreads out the stress on the fuselage over such a larger area then other types gear, the spring included.That brings up the fact that I feel there is some disagreement or confusion, by me anyway, on what constitutes an off airport site. I may be alone in thinking this way, but when I mean off airport I don't mean the Utah backcountry strips,Johnson Creek, Soldier Bar etc. or even Mile Hi. If I can google it on the internet and get lots of hits complete with numerous videos, along with detailed instructions on how and when to land it, it's an airstrip . Off airport/off airstrip (perhaps a more descriptive term) to me means landing places no one has landed before, ever, and you're going in cold. That is where the Cub type gear gives a pilot an extra tool in the box. Offering it as an option would be a natural I believe, if not of course various aftermarket providers will be more then happy to step in and meet the demand.

It will interesting to see if the S-20 airframe will be displayed at Oshkosh on Airstreaks, as I'm sure the Just Aircraft birds will be, they have a better handle on how to aggressively market an off airport/off airstrip aircraft then RANS has shown to date. And another thing..... I freeking have to go to Facebook these days to first hear about a new model aircraft? When did that happen

I could be wrong (again) but I think there is a big difference between off airport and off airstrip. There certainly is in the insurance world.
I'd love to see a poll to see how many of us land off strip with any regularity. It would make for an interesting thread.
Off airport is a rather wide continuum of backcountry airstrips ranging from beautiful long wide mown grass strips to short rocky rutted two-track cuts in the trees.
Off airstrip is pretty much everything else. Dry lake beds, sandbars, high alpine meadows and farmer Brown's field.
There is an "airstrip" in the Moab area called Poison Springs. It's on google,youtube,UBCP,Shortfield... It is however beyond the capabilities of most planes and pilots. (myself included) I would not think to attempt it in my S-7 without Roberts gear. OK... even with the gear I wouldn't try it.
I'm guessing that Rans is more than happy to let the people who would truly benefit from Roberts gear buy it directly.
If a buyer really wanted the Roberts Gear, I'd bet that Rans would sell it to them with their kit. But it would likely be more than if they bought it directly from Roberts.
There may also be an issue of Roberts being able to supply them in volume. Not good for customer relations if your kit is on back-order for months waiting on parts. Look how long it took for Roberts to deliver the S-6 prototype.