Hello wise pilots,

I'm a 475 hour +/- tailwheel and float pilot. Over my flying time I've received diametrically opposed answers from high-time instructors about this and was hoping someone had a definitive answer.

It's been suggested to me by a 12,000 hour instructor, and it seems to make sense, when flying at a non-towered airport or strip, that making position reports in and near the runway environment should be done with a basic description, instead of my tail number: i.e. "Anytown traffic, White and Blue Beaver, left downwind, runway 20, anytown." The idea being anyone else in the pattern is more concerned with identifying me and my location that what my tail number is, especially if there are several planes in the pattern.

On the other hand I've had people jump on the radio and ask "doesn't that plane have a tail number?" I since have asked other instructors about it and the answers seem to be about 50/50.

Does anyone know if the FAR / AIM addresses this? I've not found anything.

Thanks,

Kevin

The only time I ever say my N# on the radio is if Im talking to "the man." Other than that, its "Skywagon left base." The other ding dongs dont need to know anything other than where to look...

FWIW I was taught (recently) to use my N number.

I agree that airplane description would make sense to the pilots more than the N number however. I also have seen it both ways, N number or desc.

It doesn't matter to me. Just be accurate with your location.

CW

I've always used last 3 of the tail number (Ercoupe 86 Hotel, Cessna 43 Bravo, etc), and that seems to be the overwhelming favorite call in most places. If I am at a fly-in with a lot of traffic I expand that to "Silver Cessna 43 Bravo", and on the very rare occasions when I fly into someplace that has a "voluntary noise abatement procedure" I use only a description such as "Silver Cessna", even if I am following the "voluntary procedure".

Bigrenna wrote:The only time I ever say my N# on the radio is if Im talking to "the man." Other than that, its "Skywagon left base." The other ding dongs dont need to know anything other than where to look...

I agree with this. Although I do sometimes still use my N# at untowered airports out of habit, I can't recall seeing it required anywhere.

I recently learned to use model + last three (eg Skywagon 3EB) which helps if someone needs to respond at a busy field. That was from an instructor // ATP with nearly 40,000 hours.


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I was just thinking about this some more...

I can't remember the last time I referred to another aircraft in the pattern by their tail number. Usually when deconflicting in an uncontrolled airport I'll tell the "downwind traffic" or whatever that I've got them in sight (or not) and I'm number two or whatever. Occasionally I've called to a "skywagon on downwind" or something to that effect, but usually its not that congested at my usual non-towered stops.

That's even if people have used their tail numbers. Maybe this makes me a bad pilot, but I don't devote the mental real-estate to recalling their tail numbers.

So, that's just me. Does anyone else refer to other aircraft in the pattern of an uncontrolled airport by tail number?

I know a guy who has a friend who told him about a buddy who has 198,000 hours. All I could say was WOW

Bigrenna wrote:I know a guy who has a friend who told him about a buddy who has 198,000 hours. All I could say was WOW

Easy there hotrod...


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I put the people who correct people's radio calls in the same category as the people who correct people's spelling and grammar on the internet.

Student's are taught to use their N number in every_single_call for consistency and instructors think is sounds soooooo professional.

What's more important is you get your location right so people know where to look for you.

Bagarre wrote:I put the people who correct people's radio calls in the same category as the people who correct people's spelling and grammar on the internet.

Student's are taught to use their N number in every_single_call for consistency and instructors think is sounds soooooo professional.

What's more important is you get your location right so people know where to look for you.

I think you meant "every-single-call"

Bigrenna wrote:The only time I ever say my N# on the radio is if Im talking to "the man." Other than that, its "Skywagon left base." The other ding dongs dont need to know anything other than where to look...

X 2.

CamTom12 wrote:I was just thinking about this some more...

I can't remember the last time I referred to another aircraft in the pattern by their tail number. Usually when deconflicting in an uncontrolled airport I'll tell the "downwind traffic" or whatever that I've got them in sight (or not) and I'm number two or whatever. Occasionally I've called to a "skywagon on downwind" or something to that effect, but usually its not that congested at my usual non-towered stops.

That's even if people have used their tail numbers. Maybe this makes me a bad pilot, but I don't devote the mental real-estate to recalling their tail numbers.

So, that's just me. Does anyone else refer to other aircraft in the pattern of an uncontrolled airport by tail number?

I sure don't. I have a heck of a time remembering call signs. Might be easier if they were just numbers, but up here it's a whole mouthful. I have a hard enough time remembering Foxtrot Romeo Victor Hotel, and it's on a sticker on my panel!

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Personally, I find a description of the plane much more useful and memorable than a tail number. A1Skinner nailed it... I have a hard enough time remembering my own tail number.

That said, out of ten planes that frequent my local strip, 4 (including mine) are blue and white Cessnas and from any distance it is hard to tell a 172 from a 182 from a 206.

Right now I call '182 Whiskey Echo Bravo', when I switch to amphibs I'll call 'Amphib 182 Whiskey Echo Bravo' just because I think it sounds cool and I really dig hearing my own voice on the radio.

albravo wrote:Personally, I find a description of the plane much more useful and memorable than a tail number. A1Skinner nailed it... I have a hard enough time remembering my own tail number.

That said, out of ten planes that frequent my local strip, 4 (including mine) are blue and white Cessnas and from any distance it is hard to tell a 172 from a 182 from a 206.

Right now I call '182 Whiskey Echo Bravo', when I switch to amphibs I'll call 'Amphib 182 Whiskey Echo Bravo' just because I think it sounds cool and I really dig hearing my own voice on the radio.

Haha! You better call amphib pponked C182 Charlie Golf Whiskey Echo Bravo then!


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I don't remember N#'s one second after I've heard them, and I'm not alone in that. "Blue Cessna" is simple, short, concise and accurate: all prerequisites for effective radio communication.

N#'s are accurate if you can write them down, which you cannot if you're flying an airplane and keeping your eyes out the window where they belong. Unless you're talking to someone sitting at a non-moving desk, N#'s are NOT clear communication.

Even when talking to a desk, N#'s are not ideal much of the time. They don't use them at OshKosh, which has a reasonable volume of traffic now and again...

Like MANY aspects of flying, just because instructors teach it doesn't mean it's proper, logical, efficient, or prudent.

I don’t give a shit what color your plane is, and unless you fly your pattern at lear speeds and plan on running my slow ass over, I don’t really care if your a skywagon or maule, or a kit fox! If people put as much effort in to knowing where THEY are as they do trying to sound cool, we’d all be better off! 90% of airplanes have a white base color and they all look dark against the skyline. No one cares! Just don’t be an ass and know where you’re at! Oh, and one more thing, if you fly a 100kt airplane and fly 747 size traffic patterns that take 10 minutes per circuit, you’re a moron and should probably just stay off the radio completely, lol!

Cessna-06-Bravo

Be precise n to the point, if N numbers bother u, just say Bug Ren Dog super wagon with survival vest left base!