Rob's points about patents and business are certainly good ones. Patents and Lawyers are needed. Where FlightPrep lost the plot is in the "pilots helping pilots" arena. I think that is what really is getting most of us twisted.
30 some years ago I had my first, short lived, overseas job. In fact it was my first full time flying job. There were quite a few times that I was able to relay position reports to ATC from aircraft that were outside of VHF radio range. Sometimes I was out of range, even in a Navajo at 8500 ft. if you can imagine that! Once in a while the relay was for an Aeroflot flight. Picture that, 1976, height of the cold war and a greenhorn kid in a US registered airplane is relaying for Aeroflot which is no doubt 100% crewed by card carrying party members. I didn't patent relaying position reports, I didn't send Aeroflot a 32 million dollar bill, for 20 seconds it was just one pilot helping out another pilot.
FlightPrep getting a patent is fine, whether it is valid is for the lawyers and courts to decide. What they didn't need to do was take the next step and try to bully their way into monetizing it.

RobBurson wrote:

m7flyer wrote:I used to use runwayfinder because I liked it best, and would have paid for it because I liked it best. But my favorite thing was not having to log on everytime I wanted to see if an area was vfr. Just the convenience of a quick peek was great. There is nothing out there that I have found that works better. I have been looking the last week and haven't found a replacement .

This is a great wx site. Do a box zoom for your area. Your welcome.

I feel like I am pissing into the wind on this thread.

http://aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/java/

Thanks Rob,
It isn't runwayfinder but it'll help out in the meantime.
BTW you are pissing into the wind

Speaking of weather, not that I'm hijacking the thread or anything....I just tried the fairly new intellicast app for the ipad. pretty cool.

Navmonster is for sale now....
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/bizav/1797-full.html#203834

I am a firm believer that more brains are better than 1. I am way out numbered in opinions on this subject, so y'all are probably right. BUT, I am old and stubborn.

So we can agree to disagree. Nothing personal either. I love a good debate.

On the Van's Air Force site a pilot told a story how a Van's guy making a gauge got sued by I think JPI??? VAF all got pissy and said we will never buy your products and the writer said to this day you won't find many of the brand in Vans planes. My point is it didn't put JPI out of business.

Be careful what you say!
From VAF site.

Before this thread gets heated up I suggest Googling Avweb / Arthur Wolk to offer some suggestions as to how this discussion can be structured on VAF to avoid future problems.

Some of you may remember a situation years ago between Avweb and attorney Arthur Wolk, at the time I believe Avweb was owned by Mike Busch of Savvy Aviator fame.
http://www.savvyaviator.com/

The snippet below give a good overview.

"September 7-9 -- Watch what you say about lawyers (part XI). Aviation trial lawyer Arthur Alan Wolk, after winning a record-breaking $480 million jury verdict against Cessna last month, came in for heated criticism from readers of AVweb and other general aviation enthusiast websites (seeAug. 24-26, Aug. 20-21). Now, reports AVweb, Wolk "has filed a lawsuit against AVweb, two of its editors and four subscribers. Wolk's suit, filed in a Pennsylvania court, is critical of statements made on AVweb. The lawsuit seeks in excess of $100,000 in compensatory and punitive damages." AVweb says it is evaluating the merits of the suit. (AVweb Newswire, Sept. 6 (scroll to "On the Fly", near bottom of page)). Update Oct. 12-14(more on suit). Further update Sept. 16-17, 2002: in July 2002 AVweb capitulated and published on its website an extensive apology to Wolk, along with an apology from one of the individually sued posters."

SkyVector getting heat for caving into FP.
FlightPrep

You're going to take a lot of heat over this decision because you were the first to cave in to these bullies. You're like a scab during a union strike. The aviation community is a small tight-knit group and they have a long memory. People will remember that you didn't stand up for what was right.

And btw, if you had taken the time to read and understand the patent in question, you would realize it didn't apply to your site.

Craig Morton
http://skyvector.com/forum/%5Btitle-raw%5D-12

Good day

I found this out there on the Internet:

http://boycottflightprep.com/

Many harsh words. I fear that Flightprep may never sell another product, so if this bogus patent is upheld, it will likely be their only income.

Done and done.

RobBurson wrote:
On the Van's Air Force site a pilot told a story how a Van's guy making a gauge got sued by I think JPI??? VAF all got pissy and said we will never buy your products and the writer said to this day you won't find many of the brand in Vans planes. My point is it didn't put JPI out of business.

Be careful what you say!
From VAF site.

Now, reports AVweb, Wolk "has filed a lawsuit against AVweb, two of its editors and four subscribers. Wolk's suit, filed in a Pennsylvania court, is critical of statements made on AVweb. The lawsuit seeks in excess of $100,000 in compensatory and punitive damages."

For one, I wouldn't compare JPI to flightprep. MANY pilots are aware of JPI and have used their products. Before this patent BS I never had even head of flightprep, I'm guessing they were on their way out if business anyway and this was a last ditch effort.


As to your next point, one thing I love about the Internet is it is the great free speech tool, if flightprep is still around after their legal expenses and wants to try to come after me for posting, go right ahead, I look forward to hearing about a lawyer showing up at Starbucks and asking if anyone saw someone using the free wifi to write "mean" things about them on some aviation site.

Hopefully this patent gets tossed (or at least seen for what it is) and the lawyers bleed flight prep dry, I look forward to hearing about them going out of business in the months to come!

ForeFlight says business as usual.
http://blog.foreflight.com/

Hey Terry,
I have invented a blade the mounts the the back of the shovel on your excavator. I received a patent for it, and part of the patent states that the blade is used to push dirt back in the hole, that you dig with the shovel. Thanks to my patent, you can dig as many holes as you want, but when you go to push dirt back in the hole........cha ching..... Looks like I'm going to be busy for a while collecting from all the excavator operators.
I have applied for a patent for backhoes as well, do you have one of those?

All statements made by Vmc or Vmc's affiliations are for entertainment purposes only. They are not intended to refer to any person, organization, government, known or unknown, whether real, fictional, unethical, detestable, undocumented, alien, or extraterrestrial. Nor are they intended to attract the litigiously inclined a--hole. They are protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution:

I don't know much about this fiasco but compelled to say something anyway because Fpoop is bringing down some of my favorite sites.

I'm not impressed.

I think it's time software companies who are affected work together to stop Fpoop's aggression. Maybe jointly filing a lawsuit challenging the patent. Fpoop has apparently not contributed in any way to the websites in question. They obviously don't have the pilot community in mind! Of course this is not about doing what is right, it's an effort to demand money from others without doing anything to actually earn it. With their patent, Fpoop now has an attitude of entitlement. Their actions have hurt general aviation making it less innovative and more dangerous. Fpoop has done a great job of alienating themselves from the GA community.

Initial lawsuits appear to target small sites who may not have the resources to defend themselves. Is this is an attempt to establish an affordable precedent? Why doesn't Fpoop show some sportsmanship by suing the AOPA? Typical bullying behavior - just go after the little guy. AOPA should drop their advertising.

When the dust settles I hope my favorite flight planning sites will return and the freedoms of motivated and talented individuals who create them can be protected. I also look forward to the day when unethical companies like Fpoop are forced out of the marketplace by their own greedy ethos.

BOOO FPOOP!

Dokmow wrote:Hey Terry,
I have invented a blade the mounts the the back of the shovel on your excavator. I received a patent for it, and part of the patent states that the blade is used to push dirt back in the hole, that you dig with the shovel. Thanks to my patent, you can dig as many holes as you want, but when you go to push dirt back in the hole........cha ching..... Looks like I'm going to be busy for a while collecting from all the excavator operators.
I have applied for a patent for backhoes as well, do you have one of those?

Haha,
Sounds like I have about 10 years to make my fortune before you file your lawsuit.
Thanks for the notice about your pending patent, I will review our practices and make a decision on the merits of your patent.
Due to the fact that I have had more than a few beverages...... I have already made a decision!
YOU CAN GO F#%K YOURSELF!

Throttle Pusher wrote:

I found this out there on the Internet:

http://boycottflightprep.com/

Many harsh words. I fear that Flightprep may never sell another product, so if this bogus patent is upheld, it will likely be their only income.

Done and done.

Does this need its own thread?? Just concerned that some may not read this whole thread to find the url and sign the petition. I found it on the www.flyhusky.org site, then looked here to be sure it was mentioned.

Hope this puts the screws to Flight Prep . . . a rotten way for them to do business.

Terry wrote:Haha,
Sounds like I have about 10 years to make my fortune before you file your lawsuit.
Thanks for the notice about your pending patent, I will review our practices and make a decision on the merits of your patent.
Due to the fact that I have had more than a few beverages...... I have already made a decision!
YOU CAN GO F#%K YOURSELF!

I thought it might go this way. I can't wait until my day in court were I can say........
"that is right your Honor, he has made soooooo much money off of my idea, that he owns not one, but TWO airplanes. How much money does one man need?"

NavMonster to relaunch website after FlightPrep deal
NavMonster has reached a patent deal with FlightPrep and will relaunch its website. "We got all the lawyers and programmers together from both sides, and after some good discussions, an agreement has been reached," NavMonster owner Marc Alexander said.

January 1, 2011
NavMonster Cuts Deal With FlightPrep
Email this article |Print this article

By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief



The FlightPrep patent story took another turn Friday when NavMonster.com, which pulled down its popular site about two weeks ago, suddenly announced it had reached a deal with FlightPrep and will relaunch an updated website early in the New Year. "We got all the lawyers and programmers together from both sides, and after some good discussions, an agreement has been reached," NavMonster owner Marc Alexander said in a statement posted on the site. "No more patent infringement worries." It's a significant change in tone from the angry condemnation that appeared on the site two weeks ago when Alexander announced he was pulling the pin.

In his latest post, Alexander suggests the site is coming back by popular demand and will be better in its new form. "Since the site is already down, we're taking the opportunity to change a few things around," he wrote. "But NavMonster should be back, stronger than ever, on the first of the new year." We may not discover the details of Alexander's change of heart since FlightPrep requires the signing of a non-disclosure agreement before licensing negotiations begin. The NavMonster deal brings to two the licensing agreements negotiated on FlightPrep's patent. SkyVector also has a deal. Meanwhile, the lawsuit against RunwayFinder continues through the court process. Both sides have agreed to a month-long delay in those proceedings.

That's great! I use NavMonster all the time. I read the note on Navmonster when it was shut down and it sounded like the owner did it more as a hobby (kind of like someone else we know) and didn't have a lot of money. I don't know what the deal was but I'm glad NM will be back!

I Just Checked And It Is Up And Running Again!!!

RunwayFinder is Back Online!

From the news tab on the site:

"RunwayFinder is back on the air! Thanks to your overwhelming support and some great communication sat down with FlightPrep and FlightPrep agreed to dismiss the lawsuit! The exact details of the settlement license are convidential. RunwayFinder doees not ask for or support any further boycott of FlightPrep, its services, products, or owners. This is a big win for RunwayFinder and the pilots who depend on its services! We're back and lawsuit free, come check out http://www.runwayfinder.com. Again, thanks you for all of your support."

Wahoo!

Best news I've had all week!

Best news I've had all week!

So, what happened?

Looks like my guys at FlightPrep have another happy customer.

Runway Finder that is. It is still free. If you don't think these free websites make enough money off adds to make it worth there while, you had better rethink.

They say oh I don't make any money doing this, then they pay FlightPrep. Oh I am sure Runway Finder is doing this just for the fun of it. Yah right.

GO FlightPrep GO!

Good day...Rob