RobBurson wrote:Runway Finder that is. It is still free. If you don't think these free websites make enough money off adds to make it worth there while, you had better rethink.

What ads? I don't see any ads on runwayfinder.com

BCP made about $800 in 2010 on Google Ads. What a gold mine!

I wonder much money it cost the RF guy to defend the lawsuit for a product, that in the end, FlightPrep "licensed" under their bogus, widely refuted patent? Nothing has changed, it's still wrong. The only victory here is that this poor mofo from RF doesn't have to refinance his house to keep his free website running and safe from those who know how to legally bully the little guy. You all better get each other's emails, because if that ever happens to BCP, this will all be replaced with a blank page while I continue to spend my money on airplanes.

Zane wrote:Runway FinderI wonder much money it cost the RF guy to defend the lawsuit for a product, that in the end, FlightPrep "licensed" under their bogus, widely refuted patent? Nothing has changed, it's still wrong. The only victory here is that this poor mofo from RF doesn't have to refinance his house to keep his free website running and safe from those who know how to legally bully the little guy. You all better get each other's emails, because if that ever happens to BCP, this will all be replaced with a blank page while I continue to spend my money on airplanes.

Look at the nice things Mr RF has to say about my boys at FlightPrep. Some people said my boys would be out of business by now. They are not. They have a great product. I wish RF and FP would work together to make the ultimate product.





Good day

RB,

I don't see anything wrong with their comments. They felt they were being wronged and ask people that support them to boycott. Not really a huge thing. Granted I don't know either company and never really hear of them until I found this post. I do believe feeling and emotions have to be left out in business. To me there doesn’t even really seem to be bad blood between the two companies. I respect and admire company “A” for stating they no long request or support a boycott of company “B”.
It sounds like you have personal friends at company “B”. I admire your support of your friends, and hope I’ll have support like that if I ever start a business/website.

RobBurson wrote:Looks like my guys at FlightPrep have another happy customer.

Runway Finder that is. It is still free. If you don't think these free websites make enough money off adds to make it worth there while, you had better rethink.

They say oh I don't make any money doing this, then they pay FlightPrep. Oh I am sure Runway Finder is doing this just for the fun of it. Yah right.

GO FlightPrep GO!

Good day...Rob

Some free websites are there just because. I saw the need for a place for our Avids and kitfoxes so I started a forum. Cost me a few hundred a year for unlimited everything and dedicated server, but I dont charge anyone or have any ads or sponsors. That is the only way I can keep the site what it is with no bullshit about censorship of this manufactures product verus that one. I do it cause I want a place like this for the Avid / Kitfox guys to hang out and say what ever is on their mind. There are a few left who will do something for others and expect nothing in return...

madpilot wrote:RB,

I don't see anything wrong with their comments. They felt they were being wronged and ask people that support them to boycott. Not really a huge thing. Granted I don't know either company and never really hear of them until I found this post. I do believe feeling and emotions have to be left out in business. To me there doesn’t even really seem to be bad blood between the two companies. I respect and admire company “A” for stating they no long request or support a boycott of company “B”.
It sounds like you have personal friends at company “B”. I admire your support of your friends, and hope I’ll have support like that if I ever start a business/website.

Hey madpilot, no personal friends just acquaintances. I have been pissen into the wind on this one. Oh well not the first time I have done that or the last.

akavidflyer wrote:

RobBurson wrote:Looks like my guys at FlightPrep have another happy customer.

Runway Finder that is. It is still free. If you don't think these free websites make enough money off adds to make it worth there while, you had better rethink.

They say oh I don't make any money doing this, then they pay FlightPrep. Oh I am sure Runway Finder is doing this just for the fun of it. Yah right.

GO FlightPrep GO!

Good day...Rob

Some free websites are there just because. I saw the need for a place for our Avids and kitfoxes so I started a forum. Cost me a few hundred a year for unlimited everything and dedicated server, but I dont charge anyone or have any ads or sponsors. That is the only way I can keep the site what it is with no bullshit about censorship of this manufactures product verus that one. I do it cause I want a place like this for the Avid / Kitfox guys to hang out and say what ever is on their mind. There are a few left who will do something for others and expect nothing in return...

I know I am full of crap, my eyes are brown.

Well, this is certainly NOT good news as far as I'm concerned. Looks more like RunwayFinder caved in to FP and cut a deal. Probably went something like this: FP drops the lawsuit and lets RF use "their" technology for free and in exchange RF stops trying to have FP's ridiculous patent invalidated, takes down all of the blog posts about the issue, says FP is just a bunch of swell guys and everyone promises to keep their mouths shut about it.

So much for fighting the good fight. Thanks for nothing, Dave.

Boycott of FP is still very much ON as far as I'm concerned. And I'll just make do with VFRMAPS.COM instead of RF from now on.

C.

Skylane_Guy wrote:Well, this is certainly NOT good news as far as I'm concerned. Looks more like RunwayFinder caved in to FP and cut a deal. Probably went something like this: FP drops the lawsuit and lets RF use "their" technology for free and in exchange RF stops trying to have FP's ridiculous patent invalidated, takes down all of the blog posts about the issue, says FP is just a bunch of swell guys and everyone promises to keep their mouths shut about it.

So much for fighting the good fight. Thanks for nothing, Dave.

Boycott of FP is still very much ON as far as I'm concerned. And I'll just make do with VFRMAPS.COM instead of RF from now on.

C.

I don't know what deal was struck, but I certainly don't blame Dave at all. He's just a guy. Fighting Flightprep's band of lawyers was probably not something he signed up for. I'm glad runwayfinder's back up. Certainly, it would be better if the patent was stricken down, but that's a long costly process.

The sad fact is that almost anything you can think of in the software world has been patented already. Amazon.com has a patent on product reviews, for instance. Luckily, most patent holders don't go after the little guy like Flightprep did here.

My only problem with Dave is that he clearly made a complete 180 on this issue. He said he wasn't going to accept the validity of their patent. He said he was not going to license "their" technology or sign an NDA, and now he has done all of that. Some of us were stupid enough to believe in him and donated money for the cause. What happens now? Do we get our money back now that he has decided to roll over?

C.

Skylane_Guy wrote:Some of us were stupid enough to believe in him and donated money for the cause.
C.

I was one of them! I figured he needed all the help he could get. I'm sure we'll hear more about what happened eventually. He also said any money left over would be rolled over to the next guy who gets sued by FP.

I'm sure we'll hear more about what happened eventually.

I doubt it. He signed the NDA - something else he said he wasn't going to do, but did. FP certainly isn't going to talk about it.

He also said any money left over would be rolled over to the next guy who gets sued by FP.

Got a link to where he said that?

C.

By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief



RunwayFinder, the charting and airport information Web site that was embroiled in legal action with FlightPrep a year ago, is closing. In a statement owner Dave Parsons said the decision was made partly because of the FAA's intention to charge fees for chart downloads through its online charting division AeroNav. "While I understand AeroNav's need to re-capture costs, the new chart fees along with other licensing fees will put RunwayFinder firmly into the red," Parsons wrote. He said the money issues might have been overcome but there is also a lot of work that needs to be done to update the service. "I've had many people suggest alternatives, but unfortunately there is no way to keep it going (for reasons I can't disclose)," he wrote. The non-disclosure is likely a reference to an agreement he signed with FlightPrep last March that settled a well-publicized lawsuit over alleged patent infringement by RunwayFinder.

FlightPrep holds a broadly worded patent on the technology of online flight planning and Parsons was among the first to challenge FlightPrep's claims. Parsons reached an agreement with FlightPrep before the conclusion of the legal action against RunwayFinder. A non-disclosure agreement was part of that deal. Parsons said he started RunwayFinder in 2005 when he was learning to fly because he had a hard time putting together flight planning information from online sources. "Being a software engineer, I wrote some code, collected a bunch of data and charts, and RunwayFinder was born."

IMO
See when you let the private companies work things out RF stayed in biz. When the feds got involved RF gone. The government is the problem.

Good day

Here is Dave Parsons' official statement from the RF blog:

RunwayFinder will be shutting down at the end of February. It's been a great 7 years, but it's time to fold her up. While I understand AeroNav's need to re-capture costs, the new chart fees along with other licensing fees will put RunwayFinder firmly into the red. If this were the only issue, I could try collecting donations. However, the site needs continuous maintenance: the airport data format is changing this year, the weather gathering needs updates, and improvements are needed to keep up with the latest browsers and mobile devices. I've had many people suggest alternatives, but unfortunately there is no way to keep it going (for reasons I can't disclose).

When I started RunwayFinder in 2005, viewing aeronautical charts online was difficult. I was learning how to fly, and wanted to look at charts from across the country to dream about where I could fly some day. Being a software engineer, I wrote some code, collected a bunch of data and charts, and RunwayFinder was born. It made a little money along the way, all of which was plowed into legal defense. Despite that, it's been a fun project and a great learning experience. Thanks to all the pilots out there that used the site, and especially those that helped out along the way.

Sounds like a few issues are at hand, the primary one being that he is sick of working on it. I can't say I blame him. It's a hobby site and not his livelihood. If that was the case, perhaps things would be different. His reward is not worth the personal risk of being sued by FightPrep and its clones.

Re: the statement about the government becoming involved, that's a double edged sword. The government is the entity that records patents, and who gives the power to a company like FlightPrep to sue hobby operations out of business. The absolute greatest crime in this whole mess though is the discontinuation of sales of digital chart data to individuals, furthering the stranglehold of corporate products like those from FlightPrep. I could go on a long rant here about big business (not that FlightPrep qualifies) lobbying for a turn with your anus, but I've got to go occupy something.

OregonMaule wrote:I'll bet you lunch at a restaurant of the winners choice that FP will prevail in court. Good day

Zane wrote:You're on for the lunch bet. Might take a few years to resolve...

Kelly wrote:RunwayFinder is Back Online!

From the news tab on the site:

"RunwayFinder is back on the air! Thanks to your overwhelming support and some great communication sat down with FlightPrep and FlightPrep agreed to dismiss the lawsuit! The exact details of the settlement license are convidential. RunwayFinder doees not ask for or support any further boycott of FlightPrep, its services, products, or owners. This is a big win for RunwayFinder and the pilots who depend on its services! We're back and lawsuit free, come check out http://www.runwayfinder.com. Again, thanks you for all of your support."

Wahoo!

Hey I never got my lunch. I know it never went to court. RF caved to FP. But that wasn't the demise of RF. Our wonderful govment was.

Being a great software engineer or code writer doesn't = success in business. Business is a mufti-fasited endeavor. In the end the product has to pay for it's self and enough extra to make it worth the owners time.

I am still in love with my FlightPrep software on my IBM, Microsoft, tablet. You get what you pay for. Apples are for eating. Just kidding don't get your panties in a knot.

Good day

Haha I think I prob owe you more than one lunch...

The private guys settled there differences. The government killed them.

From AVweb
NavMonster Closed

NavMonster, a popular free online GA flight planning and information site, is the latest to announce that uncertainty about future costs and potential lawsuits have forced its closure. The site went offline in April over a dispute with its server host but said it would be back after it found a new internet service provider. On May 22, the site announced that past issues with FlightPrep and future costs from the FAA combined to seal its fate.

"Faced with the upcoming AeroNav fees, and the uncertainty from last year's lawsuit shenanigans (that issue was never resolved and is still looming over our heads), it's just not feasible to continue," said a statement on its site. Aeronav, the FAA's electronic chart and aeronautical information arm, is going through the process of trying to charge for downloads of charts and plates but it's not clear how all that is going to turn out because of political intervention. NavMonster was also among those targeted by potential legal action when FlightPrep began enforcing its patent on certain functions that make online flight planning work. NavMonster initially made a deal with FlightPrep to continue and did so for more than a year. Earlier this year, RunwayFinder, another free service that also had a deal with FlightPrep, shut down citing future AeroNav costs as its main reason.