C180_guy wrote:K factor adjusted right? Not sure there are two types of transducers.

There are two type of transducers for the EDM 900 - a blue tagged one for injected engines and a yellow for carburetors. I had a blue tagged unit placed. We swapped it for a yellow tagged unit and also placed new fuel hoses. I got the FF up to 21.5 GPH. I adjusted the K factor today but it wasn't off significantly. EGTs were better with 2 more gallons of FF today - down around 1380 max at take off settings - but it was relatively cool today. I am curious if everyone with O-520 engines Pponk or Texas Skyways - are using 4893 model MA 4/5 carbs? I want the FF up high engine to keep the engine cool in the summer.

Josh

Dog is my Copilot wrote:

C180_guy wrote:K factor adjusted right? Not sure there are two types of transducers.

There are two type of transducers for the EDM 900 - a blue tagged one for injected engines and a yellow for carburetors. I had a blue tagged unit placed. We swapped it for a yellow tagged unit and also placed new fuel hoses. I got the FF up to 21.5 GPH. I adjusted the K factor today but it wasn't off significantly. EGTs were better with 2 more gallons of FF today - down around 1380 max at take off settings - but it was relatively cool today. I am curious if everyone with O-520 engines Pponk or Texas Skyways - are using 4893 model MA 4/5 carbs? I want the FF up high engine to keep the engine cool in the summer.

Josh

Hi Josh,

My C180J has an 0-470-R that was converted to P-Ponk 0-520 (0-470-50) by Premier Aircraft Engines in Troutdale. Jim re-jetted the 10-4893-1 MA4-5 carb and we did experiment a bit to get where we are now. I have a JPI EDM-830 installed.

At full throttle, full-rich, 2700 RPM at sea-level, it indicates a FF of 26 to 26.5 gph. At full throttle, full-rich, 2700 RPM at 3500 feet (i.e. KBDN), it indicates a FF of 24.5 to 25 gph. In each case, the highest EGTs are low to mid-1400s (#2 and #4) and the highest CHTs during extended climb out are under 350F (#3). Each 100 RPM reduction generally reduces FF by about 1gph. These are all in summer conditions. This information is coming from my records on Savvy Analysis.

I would also point out that comparing absolute values of EGTs between engines (i.e. yours, mine and anyone else's) is meaningless, so don't focus on those numbers. You just want to learn where your engine operates when all is well - the absolute number is not important.

I have to keep the mixture quite lean on the ground, or in the pattern, at higher DA airports. However, during hot summer weather, for near sea-level operations, the high fuel flow keeps the engine running at a very comfortable place during takeoff and climb out. Personally, I think you should consider having your carb re-jetted for a higher fuel flow. I'm happy to discuss further.

Regards, Richard

Windknot54 wrote:....My C180J has an 0-470-R that was converted to P-Ponk 0-520 (0-470-50) by Premier Aircraft Engines in Troutdale.....

Off topic...were you pleased with Premier?
They're on my short list for when overhaul time comes.

hotrod180 wrote:

Windknot54 wrote:....My C180J has an 0-470-R that was converted to P-Ponk 0-520 (0-470-50) by Premier Aircraft Engines in Troutdale.....

Off topic...were you pleased with Premier?
They're on my short list for when overhaul time comes.

Yes, I was happy with Premier. The process was slow, but I believe that’s common to all good overhaul shops. Perhaps plan ahead and place a deposit to secure a place on the line. Jim was great at communicating - he returned phone messages promptly and suffered my inquiries with patience. His documentation was thorough. After 400 hours of operation I have no complaints.


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Windknot54 wrote:Jim was great at communicating

Just don't expect him to tell many jokes...

They are a good shop. Jim is awesome. They handled all my inspections and did my rod bushings and swapped my counterweights for my 540. Then they handled the rod bushing recall that I got caught in shortly after, no expense. I think Lycoming compensates their time.

Zzz wrote:

Windknot54 wrote:Jim was great at communicating

Just don't expect him to tell many jokes...

Jim tells jokes - when does that happen?

I have a p ponk with 700 hours. I’m only seeing 21-21 gph WOT during takeoff. The plane is going to be down for 2 mos for a full glass panel. I know Lycon does flow testing & rebuilds, any other suggestion of shops that know how to dial in the p ponk carb settings?

Thanks,

Sean

Avstar in Jupiter FL is who modified my carb on my Pponk. It is one of the approved shops for doing that.

[email protected] wrote:...any other suggestion of shops that know how to dial in the p ponk carb settings? ..

The North Point website isn't working, and I can't find it on the Ponk website,
but I seem to recall one of them had a list of carb shops approved to do the mod(s) required for a 470-50 aka 470XP.
I would contact NorthPoint or Pponk & ask them.

Northpoint sight seems to work for me.

Eligible MA4-5 Part Numbers are: 10-3965-12-1, 10-4893-1, 10-5192 or 10-5284. With authorization from NorthPoint, the carburetor modification (an overhaul as well) may be accomplished by AvStar Fuel Systems in Florida, Professional Aircraft Accessories in Ohio, or LyCon Rebuilding in California.

Thanks, Gents! I have a bigger issue now and have started a new post! Joys of plane ownership

Spoke with the engine builder, he said they realized prior to selling the STC to north point that they put too small of a jet in most of the p ponks, which many of you have eluded to throughout the old posts I saw on BC. He said to have a mechanic use a 29 drill bit and that should provide the necessary fuel flow.

I have been following this thread for insight. I bought my 180 4 years ago, I was a low time guy, and it was my first airplane, I have learned a ton since then. It always felt like even at 6000' field elevation that it liked full rich on takeoff. A friend has a 180 with a 470 and his fuel flow is not much more than mine. I reduce RPM pretty quickly after takeoff, before the end of the 3300' runway, down to about 2400 to 2500, I don't have a lot of data from 2700 rpm. But, In the time that I am at 2700 rpm, fuel flow is about 21.5 or so, I don't think i've ever seen it over 22. Field elevation is 6000', when air temp is below 10, I get hot cylinder #3, sometimes #4. Pull a little carb heat and egts and chts drop down in line with the others, during the brief time of hot cylinders, I will occasionally see just over 400, with the others in the 350 to 360 range.
I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but it likes to run LOP. On many occasions, I will have CHT variations of less than 30 from high to low. I often run 2300rpm, at 17" with under 10gph, I can go less on fuel flow but it just starts to slow down, but still smooth.

The reason I am posting now is that the plane will not be flown for about 3 weeks while I am rafting the Grand Canyon. My biggest hesitation to send it to Lycon for flow testing is the down time.

This engine setup has been in the plane since at least 1996 when it was brought into the country from Canada.

Is 21gph at 23" and 2700rpm enough?

I sent my carb to lycon last week, they received it on Thursday. I received a call today that it was done with the flow test and they needed payment. They sent me the 1st flow test where it was pulling 22.5 and they made some adjustments and on run #2 it was drawing 26.2 - total cost $116.90 and only took 2 workday’s. PM me your email and I will send you the test results etc. looking forward to finally having it set up properly.