Aeroshell $23.50 gal.
Phillips - $16.04 gal.
------------------------------
$ 7.46 gal. difference

Any thoughts on this? When buying it by the drum it's over a $400.00 difference, i am going to start buying it by the drum and I leaning toward Phillips.

Brian

Mike Busch recommends the Phillips oil, supplemented with Camguard. Ends up being close to the cost of the Aeroshell, but with (presumably) better engineering. I've been running that combo for years now, and have no complaints.

I've been using Phillips XC 20-50 almost exclusively for fifteen years. My engines have run strong and trouble free.

Here's hoping I didn't just shoot myself in the foot with that comment.

I'm not overly analytical about oil. Change it and go, but no complaints.

An article from Blackstone Labs. They do engine analysis; so, I figure they have better statistics than we do. The only reservation i have is corrosion since I live on the wet side of the hills. Camguard seems to be a good solution.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/about-aircraft-oils.php

In pipeline work, where we got 3,000 hours between overhauls on 0-320 150 hp and 0-360 Lycoming engines, we had no problem with either oil. The only exception was the 0-320 H2AD 160 hp engine. After having valve problems, Textron Lycoming put out a Service Bulletin recommending use of the expensive Shell with the special additive. We got less than 3,000 on H2AD engines until we began using the Shell with the special additive. Continued use of the Phillips on the 0-320 150 hp and 0-360 engines gave no problems.

I'm too scared to do an oil change right now anyways because the aeroshell bottle color changed. Red bottle?! I need the black bottle back to feel comfortable pouring it in.

TomD wrote:An article from Blackstone Labs. They do engine analysis; so, I figure they have better statistics than we do. The only reservation i have is corrosion since I live on the wet side of the hills. Camguard seems to be a good solution.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/about-aircraft-oils.php

Very dry on my side of the hills but I agree with you and I run Camguard all the time. I did not catch on to Camguard until I had around 500 hours on my engine but wish I'd used it since after break in.

I think the cam in a Lycoming is one of it's most vunerable internal organs.

TomD wrote:An article from Blackstone Labs. They do engine analysis; so, I figure they have better statistics than we do. The only reservation i have is corrosion since I live on the wet side of the hills. Camguard seems to be a good solution.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/about-aircraft-oils.php

Great article but this line does not make sense to me:

'The only type of oil you can safely use in an air-cooled aircraft engine is an aircraft-use oil. To use any other type of oil is to invite premature failure of the engine due to detonation'

Detonation?

Unless the CHT's go up to something dangerous I can't see how an oil would cause detonation.

BTW I'm an Aeroshell 100 Plus guy (with Camguard) myself.

I bet it doesn't matter and they are all the same so fine to use what's cheapest.

I just stick with what I know and what I've been taught.

I think the big question is are the synthetics better. Knowing more about motorcycles, I suspect they are.

Friend of mine is somewhat of an authority on aircraft reliability. Spent 40 plus years analyzing all types of failures in aircraft, a good portion of that power plant. He's a (now) retired DOD Aeronautical Engineer with A&P IA/DER. Really interesting data set related to all the piston engine run times from just the Air Force alone. Several Govt. agencies collect a massive amount of piston engine data. It's just a huge data mining project to collect and analyze.

He's a real, Engineer's Engineer that has been flying little airplanes for decades. He loves technology, loves new stuff, and can go on and on about the benefits of synthetics, additive packages, etc. That said, I asked him for an oil recommendation one time. He said, "statistically, the best oil for your engine (Lycoming) is oil that's regularly changed. Clean, cool, and lots of it."

I take the track from his experience, and mine (Petroleum/Mechanical Engineer) that as long as the oil is fresh and full and you are controlling particulates....you are good to go. PH is a concern, but the only way to control that is changing the oil. Another opinion of mine is that any aviation oil made to a standard spec will not CAUSE a failure. Synthetics and additives can certainly promote several positive attributes but engines aren't failing because people aren't running the latest additives (that I'm aware of).

Every engine I've ever opened up that was run on phillips has impressed me with how clean they are. I don't know what kind of magic is in that oil, but you don't find build up and sludge inside of an engine run on Phillips in my experience.

TurboStinson wrote:Aeroshell $23.50 gal.
Phillips - $16.04 gal.
------------------------------
$ 7.46 gal. difference ..........

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

I ran Phillips in my last two airplanes, as recommended by my ex- part 135 DOM IA. Almost all of the hours on my 180 I own now were put on by the guy I bought it from, he ran W100 exclusively, with Camguard. I figured he had such good luck, I'd just keep doing the same- even though it turns out that nowadays Phillips is (slightly) cheaper by the case here than W100. But when I pulled a cylinder for repair recently, my mechanic said to break it in with Phillips. I'm kind of thinking now that I'll run Phillips in the winter (when the multigrade aspect has advantages) and W100 in the summer-- both with Camguard.

From what I have learned over the years, they all work great when the engine is running. The problem is when the engine is sitting and for how long. Oil runs/drips off the parts over time when sitting, this is where the damage/rust comes from.

From what I have seen and read about as well as talking to overhaulers is this.

Aeroshell 15-50 is not the oil to use if you do not fly frequently.

Philips is good oil when not flying frequently.

Exxon Elite is best for use in engines when not flown frequently, that being said, Phillips is a very close second. Many people use and like cam guard.

I use Exxon Elite with cam guard. I have used Phillips in the past with excellent results. I will NOT use Aeroshell 15-50 if airplane will not be flown frequently.

One example of many I am familiar with:

Good friend used Aeroshell 15-50 in his Lyc 540 and when the engine was torn down there was rust pitting on many parts that had to be replaced. Airplane had about 300 hours in 12 years time and was always in a heated hangar, strong possibility it is related to oil.

Longer flights that burn off moisture in the oil are better than short flights that do not.

That is my 2 cents worth.

Kurt

The best thing for the engine is to fly frequently (keep the oil circulating), and change the oil often. I change oil every 30 hours or 3 months, whichever comes first. Two years after a top overhaul and camshaft replacement, my cylinders all showed 78 over 80 at my annual this May. The previous owner had let the plane sit essentially unused for 18 months and that was devastating for the engine. Fly it, or sell it!

FWIW, when my engine guy built my Lycoming O-360 engine 11 years ago, his recommendation then was Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100 in the summer. My IA agrees. I asked about multi-weight and other brands. Both repeated, Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100.

More recently, I asked each of them again. Both repeated, Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100. I also asked my IA about Camguard--didn't think to ask my engine guy. Again, both repeated, Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100, and my IA said I wouldn't get any benefit from Camguard if I changed the oil as needed, flew frequently, etc.

So guess what? I run Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100, no Camguard. The engine has roughly 700 hours on it since it was built, burns very little oil, had excellent compressions at the annual in February, runs great, averages 9.8 gph, with the back 2 cylinders running hotter than the front 2. I average just under 65 hours per year, a bit more in the summer due to the OSH and other trips, a bit less in the winter. In cold weather, I preheat. I have no idea how its innards are other than its symptoms are of a good engine doing what it's supposed to do. With new plugs at this last annual, it starts easier, but I don't notice any other changes.

Cary

Great article but this line does not make sense to me:

'The only type of oil you can safely use in an air-cooled aircraft engine is an aircraft-use oil. To use any other type of oil is to invite premature failure of the engine due to detonation'

Detonation?

Here is the answer from Blackstone:

It's because automotive oil is not ashless. It leaves behind deposits of ash that ignite prematurely and cause detonation in the cylinders. Let me know if you have any other questions!

Sincerely,

Kristin Huff
Blackstone Labs

Cary wrote:FWIW, when my engine guy built my Lycoming O-360 engine 11 years ago, his recommendation then was Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100 in the summer. My IA agrees. I asked about multi-weight and other brands. Both repeated, Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100.

More recently, I asked each of them again. Both repeated, Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100. I also asked my IA about Camguard--didn't think to ask my engine guy. Again, both repeated, Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100, and my IA said I wouldn't get any benefit from Camguard if I changed the oil as needed, flew frequently, etc.

So guess what? I run Aeroshell 80 in the winter and Aeroshell 100, no Camguard. The engine has roughly 700 hours on it since it was built, burns very little oil, had excellent compressions at the annual in February, runs great, averages 9.8 gph, with the back 2 cylinders running hotter than the front 2. I average just under 65 hours per year, a bit more in the summer due to the OSH and other trips, a bit less in the winter. In cold weather, I preheat. I have no idea how its innards are other than its symptoms are of a good engine doing what it's supposed to do. With new plugs at this last annual, it starts easier, but I don't notice any other changes.

Cary

Oh, they're out there. I once knew a VERY experienced IA who said running AD oil like Aeroshell W-100 in a P & W R 985 would just plain ruin that engine. Engine went to TBO and was clean as a whistle, and got there without the least bit of trouble.

Don't use multi viscosity oils?? Really?? Then you must not ever fly in cold weather......cause there'll come a time when you stop somewhere in cold weather for fuel or weather, and wait a little bit too long.....and now that VERY expensive engine of yours has pretty thick goo in the pan, which may or may not provide much lubrication for the first five minutes of run time after that cold start. Now, I'm not suggesting that you start a totally cold soaked engine, I'm just talking about the case where it got a little colder than you'd like. How much wear occurs then?

Don't use CamGuard? Really? Both major engine manufacturers now authorize its use in their engines. As in, it's approved. Unlike Marvel Mystery Oil, or any of a dozen other flavors of snake oil. Virtually every knowledgeable lubricant expert these days is saying that Cam Guard does what the manufacturer claims it does. Have you read any of Mike Busch's discussions on the subject?

And, yes, if you run that engine faithfully and almost daily, you don't need Cam Guard. But if that engine sits without running for a couple weeks at a time occasionally, Cam Guard might just save your bacon. Cam Guard was developed by a lubricants engineer who worked for Exxon at the time, by the way, not some backyard "expert".

But, your local wrenches are the REAL experts on lubricants, apparently.

For the record, I use Exxon Elite multi viscosity oil and Cam Guard.

Finally, a very old aviation saying, that is still true today: Oil is the cheapest thing you'll put into your engine.

MTV

Once again..... MTV is spot on!

UH-60andC-180 wrote:I'm too scared to do an oil change right now anyways because the aeroshell bottle color changed. Red bottle?! I need the black bottle back to feel comfortable pouring it in.

Ha! Me too. I called my companies oil supplier and questioned what it was they brought me. They had no idea. It took a bit of poking around on the web to finally find where it said they changed the color "for our convenience". Gosh, thanks

I've run both Aeroshell and Phillips - Phillips is a little less costly but works just as well. I keep both on hand for shop depending on what customer wants. We used to get Aeroshell 100 by the 55 gallon barrel but it became to costly to stock so we just go by the case now.

Mobile 1 Racing 4T from Walmart. It's around $6 a quart. Don't put it in your Lycoming or Continental though.