Hello hello. I am new to this forum but am looking for the many years of experience that the members of this site have. I live in Nunavut in the Canadian Arctic and am going to buy a plane in the next two years but am on the fence. This is in part due to my lacking experience flying but I will have the money to buy one in time. I want a plane that can land on the tundra on skis in winter, floats in summer and tundra tires if I need to. I will be using it to go hunting and fishing allot and otherwise flying down to southern Canada to shop (everything is expensive and hard to find a in a fly in only!) I am leaning to a c180 or 185 but am also looking at a muaule. I want good cross country capability but will be doing off airport stuff. Short takeoff is not huge issue as the next tree is 70miles away. I will have to learn tail dragged flying first but hey.

I know I know, fly with someone else first or rent as I haven't flown much but there are no small planes in the north and I don't even own a truck as there are no roads out of town.

I will be budgeting 150 to 180 Canadian so I think like 130 to 150 ish US?

I also will think of upgrading to diesel piston in time as jet A is brought in by ship and is cheaper than 100ll which comes in drums.

What do you ladies and gentlemen think?

Welcome! C180 with stock 0-470, which can run mogas, assuming that's much cheaper than 100LL up there. I bought and learned in a 59' 180B. Solo'd in a C-172, and got 5 hours in a PA-18 while shopping for a plane. Bought the 180 at around 25 hours TT, wasn't any big deal finishing up PPL in the wagon. Was in the same boat as you, looking for either a Maule or 180, the right 180 came up first. With Maule's fetching much more money these days, than when I was shopping 8 years ago, my vote is for the Cessna. You're budget will allow for a really nice example of either. Have fun, and let us know how it all works out [emoji16]

I agree with Luke. I think a stock 470 powered 180 is great. Burning moGas is cheaper then deisel. But if theres no roads it may be hard to come by as well. I'm not aware of a deisel conversion for the 180/185, but I've been wrong before. Same with Maule. Right now I dont have much good to say about Maules customer service,so I'd have a very hard time recommending one of them right now. The 180 also has more STC options available.
I'm down in Northern Alberta. If you make it this way on your search be sure to PM me.

David

The 180 is an excellent aircraft. You may need to consider one that has some mods already to cope with colder than average temps. Diesel conversions are kind of like flying cars, always two years away. Someday one will come to the surface that works, I'll be dead by then. The biggest problem with any of the advanced engines that saunter out of development is getting an STC for your aircraft make/model. Your wait may be long for that part, even though the engine has been approved. I was managing Soloy back in the 90's when they where approached by Rotax to do the prototype conversion for the V6 engine they where developing. Soloy ended up electing not to participate, but along the way I learned a bit about the marketing strategy. They really wanted the meaty wide market of the 182's. Things like 180/185's where never even considered to be worth the effort to certify.

You will be dropping a bit of coin to float/ski/wheel equip your aircraft. Do you have support there on your field to do the float/off float/on operation? A bit of a crane is required along with a lifting ring. Otherwise you would be looking to find a place that will do it and store your floats. Which is a bit of work, so you need to budget some money annually for this. Unless you have somebody that will do it for free.

BTW, getting checked out in tailwheel aircraft will tend to make you a better all around pilot.

Welcome!

185 has a better heater. Something to consider for the North Country.

A good solid 180 on EDO 2870 floats would make a great machine for that part of the world.

Adding a seaplane kit to a 180 is a very expensive fools errand, so look for a plane with a float kit installed, or buy one with floats installed. The good news is that one of the best float models for a stock 180 are EDO 2870s, and they are cheap. If you go the up gross route, you’ll need bigger floats, but not really much better than stock. My 66 H model 180 on 2870s had seven pounds more useful load than the 185 I was flying at work on PK 3500s.

Changing from wheels to floats and back can be a challenge, and you may have to go somewhere to get it done. If you can figure out a lifting arrangement there, you may be able to do yourself.....not rocket science, but you’ll need a trailer to get the plane out of water, crane or tripod, winch, and something to tow the trailer.

Several skis approved on 180s, I’d look for Fli Lite hydraulics. Bear in mind that in windy country, it can be tough to find places smooth enough to land due to drifts.

Good luck figuring this all out.

MTV

gbflyer wrote:Welcome!

185 has a better heater. Something to consider for the North Country.

Interesting. I didnt know that. The 180 kept me plenty warm at -30. Dont really want to fly any colder than that anyways.

A1Skinner wrote:

gbflyer wrote:Welcome!

185 has a better heater. Something to consider for the North Country.

Interesting. I didnt know that. The 180 kept me plenty warm at -30. Dont really want to fly any colder than that anyways.

Yeah but your doors probably fit[emoji1]

There is a very interesting looking 170B just posted today on Barnstormers that might tick some of your boxes.

Mapleflt

That the one with the 320 on it?

Mapleflt wrote:There is a very interesting looking 170B just posted today on Barnstormers that might tick some of your boxes.

Mapleflt

The posting doesn't give a specific engine model number only that its a 180 HP Lycoming, swinging a CS prop shoot the seller an email "inquiring minds" want/need to know. They have identified it as "unmolested" but the list of extras goes way beyond the original config !!

Mapleflt wrote:The posting doesn't give a specific engine model number only that its a 180 HP Lycoming, swinging a CS prop shoot the seller an email "inquiring minds" want/need to know. They have identified it as "unmolested" but the list of extras goes way beyond the original config !!

Ok. Theres a listing of a Canadian one with an 0-320 on it a few down.

Ok Nunavutflier - here's a contrary point of view to make you think.

For that money you will get a REAL nice example of either a Maule or a Bearhawk, and have cash to spare. Hard to go past the double cargo door on those planes for fishing and hunting, having done plenty of that myself. By the way, the Bearhawk has more cabin volume than a C185 and will lift more than a C180 off any given airstrip. Proven both those facts first-hand too.

I would look for a plane that can burn MOGAS or 100LL, flexibility is key when travelling in remote areas. We nearly ran out of 100LL the other day here, two airfields with broken pumps and nothing else within remaining fuel range. My Bearhawk will take MOGAS just fine, but many certified planes wouldn't.

Cessna 185 are fantastic planes, but parts and on-going maintenance got out of hand years ago. The classic Cessna's are not going to last forever, and will get rarer. They need to be replaced by a new bush plane in our lifetime. You would be better to get a more recently manufactured airframe with cheaper, more available parts and lower maintenance needs overall. But you also need a plane with available parts in your part of the world.

Holy cow they put a "Piper" style throttle quadrant in it, we need to establish some rules !!!!!!

All very good points. But from what I saw bearhawks are kit planes and I don't even have a garage for my snowmobile. I had a good hard look at maules too but will have to have another look. I don't really need super stol but need to get off the ground and have less risk of crushing the wheels and legs. But how is a maule cross country? I will be putting long range tanks on so I can fly to Winnipeg as best I can without stopping to refuel.

Why go to Winterpeg when you've got Winter for 10 months right where you are, LOL

The "local" 180/185 dudes put up with my lowly 170 and let me hang with them, their toys are sweet. I'd be going with something in aluminum given your location, mogas and LONG range fuel would be "must have mods" as well.

Mapleflt

Nunavutflier wrote:All very good points. But from what I saw bearhawks are kit planes and I don't even have a garage for my snowmobile. I had a good hard look at maules too but will have to have another look. I don't really need super stol but need to get off the ground and have less risk of crushing the wheels and legs. But how is a maule cross country? I will be putting long range tanks on so I can fly to Winnipeg as best I can without stopping to refuel.

You can buy bearhawks that are already built. If you find one of them that might be a good way to go. Maules are pretty good cross country, but getting parts from them can be a major PIA. And if you ever have to return parts dont expect to get paid soon. Going on over 2 months waiting for a refund...
I still think an aluminium plane with LR fuel is your best bet for up there.

gbflyer are you talking all 180's or just the early ones? The 3 window 180's (1964 thru 1981), and possibly the 1960 thru 1963's, I didn't check, use the same muffler and heater shroud as the 185, so I really don't understand how the heater output is different. I am willing to learn if you want to explain it.

Tim

Nunavutflier wrote:All very good points. But from what I saw bearhawks are kit planes and I don't even have a garage for my snowmobile. I had a good hard look at maules too but will have to have another look. I don't really need super stol but need to get off the ground and have less risk of crushing the wheels and legs. But how is a maule cross country? I will be putting long range tanks on so I can fly to Winnipeg as best I can without stopping to refuel.

Both Maule and Bearhawk have a tip-tank option for long range fuel. Bearhawk is 55 gal main tanks plus 25 gal tip tanks. If you get fuel injection and lean them hard, you can enjoy up to 1,100 NM range.

My experience of the Cessna 180 with long range fuel tanks full to the top, with all that fuel they are a two person plane when you're carrying winter camping and survival gear. The Bearhawk will take an extra person plus gear, with enough fuel to go the same distance. I would go the A185F if you need to carry more, although the engine is very thirsty and range will not be as good. You could also look at a Murphy Moose or Super Rebel, in the same size category and all Aluminium body. Not sure about LR fuel though.

As has been said, you can buy any one of those experimental planes on Barnstormers in ready to fly condition, and a very well equipped one at that price. They come up for sale pretty regularly.

Battson wrote:
"Cessna 185 are fantastic planes, but parts and on-going maintenance got out of hand years ago. The classic Cessna's are not going to last forever, and will get rarer. You would be better to get a more recently manufactured airframe with cheaper, more available parts and lower maintenance needs overall."

The Maule has 63 gals usable in most models and some of the newer have 73 gals. The O-360 and O-540 powered models are candidates for Mogas. I really wanted a Bearhawk but flying aircraft was out of my budget; the Maule fit nicely. It is a rugged airframe and landing gear. I have not had any issues obtaining parts. And the parts are significantly cheaper than Cessna equivalents. They are simpler and easily field repairable.