MTV,
Not to be argumentative, but there is no valid reason for 90% of the flying most people do, especially those that rent aircraft. It's an enjoyable hobby, something done simply because you can.

I have no idea whether the pilot was arrogant, stupid, poorly trained, or simply displaying a tremendous lack of judgement at a time when doing so could wreck an airplane. Unless you personally know him, I think it's presumptuous to say why he landed there.

I don't know of anyone who would fare very well if their worst mistakes were put on the web for general speculation. And this is hardly a unique trap...I've personally seen three such planes laying inverted on snow covered runways.

Anyone here want to claim that they never tried something that was over their head, only to survive on absolutely nothing more than dumb luck? I've done it so many times that in the worst examples it took several years for me to realize how lucky I've been. And no, I've never flipped an airplane in the snow...but I've done things that were just as dumb. Show me anyone over the age of 25 who claims otherwise and I'll show you a liar.

To take personal offense at someone elses accident because it might affect your insurance rates or deprive you of a rental plane that you'd never rent in the first place seems spurious at best. Does anyone here get angry every time someone has a fender-bender?

This reminds me of a little motorcycle gem.

There are two kinds of motorcycle riders, those that have crashed, and those that are going to crash...

I think you can substitute airplane for motorcycle.

I road on the street for 30 years before "I" proved this to be true.

Rob

Burson, you irresponsible wild man, let's go snowmobiling.

Also, don't forget that the media usually gets aviation stuff wrong, and misquote people very often. Having been upside down in a field alongside a highway in a tiny wooden ultralight, I can say first-hand that the things the newspapers quoted me on made me sound like a complete idiot - even to myself. Maybe some of you have had your 15 minutes of fame already and can agree.

And the sub-headline, "Pilot didn't know the ground was snow covered," quite possibly was not even written by the journalist who wrote the rest of the article.

So when the pilot says he didn't know there was snow, the reporter could have been scratching in shorthand and left something out. It might've made perfect sense to a reporter who'd never been up in a small airplane and didn't know you could look out the windows and see things.

Would you tell the media you tried to land because your friend in the back had to take a dump REALLY REALLY BAD? Would they listen as you described that you'd flown around for a time debating whether there was an alternative and whether the snow was too deep? Beaver Marsh is some distance from anything.

Blue&Yellow Luscombe wrote:Would you tell the media you tried to land because your friend in the back had to take a dump REALLY REALLY BAD?

Yes, because I think this is the one thing that most laymen can relate to.

Ha! True!

I'd love to be the person immortalized in the papers with a statement like: "The pilot decided to land, despite the questionable snow covering, because one of his passengers, William R. Turner, 36, of Portland, needed to use the restroom after the two-hour flight. There are no lavatories on small planes, the pilot said."

No but I do get angry when people make a lame excuse for stupid irresponsible acts and try to defend people who cause us to pay more for insurance and other excesses [ Gov welfare ]

Ok, Now I have a question.. Can one land on snow using floats? I can see how crusty hard stuff will kill the bottom of floats but,,, it it's fresh and fluffy can it be done?? Inquiring minds and all.

Ben

Yes on snow and on ice.

I've been following this thread with interest sense I rent & fly out of 7S3. I've heard (second hand) that the fusalage isnt to badly damaged, but the wings are headed to the scrap pile. I'm betting they will patch it up and put it back on the line before to long. They do have a pretty good rental agreement that requires renters insurance and protects the FBO in cases of "pilot error" like this one. So I dont think they will take to big of a hit but it certanly didnt do them any favors either. Only good thing about this may be that it happened in the off season and not in the prime flying months. The guy who rented it may not come out to well though. Just a bad deal for everyone.

way back in the summer of 06 while working on my ppl,i ask the flight school at kttd if i could land the 172 rental on a 2500' turf strip. i was told no. i said, what if i take a instructor? NO!

so there we have it, one extreme to the other.

now i see why they said no.

thank goodess it wasn't a Maule...

rb

1SeventyZ wrote:Burson, you irresponsible wild man, let's go snowmobiling.

Z, I have 3 of em. gassed and ready to ride. Lets do it. We will have to let the snow settle a day or two or it will be one big stuck fest. Text or PM me.

I have a new truck also. 08 chev dually 4x4 dura max, allison 6 speed, 1500 miles now. covered trailer, bla bla bla....

Rob

Blue&Yellow Luscombe wrote:Also, don't forget that the media usually gets aviation stuff wrong, and misquote people very often. Having been upside down in a field alongside a highway in a tiny wooden ultralight, I can say first-hand that the things the newspapers quoted me on made me sound like a complete idiot - even to myself. Maybe some of you have had your 15 minutes of fame already and can agree.

Ain't that the truth. I was quoted once as saying "Hiking is never dangerous", which isn't true and wasn't what I said at all.

Blue&Yellow Luscombe wrote:I'd love to be the person immortalized in the papers with a statement like: "The pilot decided to land, despite the questionable snow covering, because one of his passengers, William R. Turner, 36, of Portland, needed to use the restroom after the two-hour flight. There are no lavatories on small planes, the pilot said."

Obviously the pilot never heard of "Pee bottles"... mini, somewhat exposed, personal lavatories. There's also the window, which may result in some bruising of 'mr. happy' and necessitating washing the plane afterwards. Of course, there's the Lisa Marie Nowak "too busy stalking to take a bathroom break" method of using Depends (tm).

GroundLooper wrote:Obviously the pilot never heard of "Pee bottles"... mini, somewhat exposed, personal lavatories. There's also the window, which may result in some bruising of 'mr. happy' and necessitating washing the plane afterwards. Of course, there's the Lisa Marie Nowak "too busy stalking to take a bathroom break" method of using Depends (tm).

Haha...nice drop on the Lisa Marie Nowak, now the person most associated with adult diapers.

I don't think urination is what would force a landing though. Of course, even that wouldn't force Jeremy down. Somewhere on here is his classic story of crapping in a crackerbox and tossing it over the north atlantic.

The choicest icebergs were too slippery, unfortuneately the side of the plane was not.

Potato chip bag wasn't it?

..."large birds up there"...

That was a great story! I still laugh every time I think of it.

1SeventyZ wrote:I don't think urination is what would force a landing though.

Well, you obviously haven't met my wife!

Rocky

ccurrie wrote:I have done a couple recoveries like that. The best way to limit damage is almost always to flip it back over the same way it went over the first time. depending how much help you have it can be done by hand, take the cowel and prop off, dig a hole were the engine goes,put a board were the prop hub will hit, and a cushin under the wing tip and walk it over. They come down remarkibly jently, in deep snow like that it may have little enough damage to fly it out of there. (with a ferry permit of course)

Looks like the prop is bent some too. The strip looks long enough that if snowmachiens could pack it down and maybe it could be flown out.

I bet he just didn't realize how deep and soft the snow really is.

A while back (10 years +) I bought a Cessna that had flipped on landing in Alaska. The prop was toast but other than that damage, the owner thought he could make field repairs good enough to fly it out. But once the insurance company got involved they took over. He said the helicopter lift bounced and bent the vertical and rudder which was not damaged; that the lifting straps bent and compressed the flaps into the wings and also put a big dent in the cowl as it came around. Oh well, it all pays the same...