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Backcountry Pilot • PPonk/XP470 Instructions

PPonk/XP470 Instructions

Lycoming, Continental, Hartzell, McCauley, or any broad spectrum drive system component used on multiple type.
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

I hope it is ok to post this. It helps me when trying to patch together “performance charts” for the new PPonk.
I keep fretting about “75%” of what. But have to remind myself that it doesn’t matter what. It is 75% of max.
PPONK Engine Power Settings.pdf
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PNW Flyer offline
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

My pponk/XP470 is going in now - reading through the docs provided from the STC and operation instruction - it says not to run it LOP. I know there are a lot of debate around LOP vs ROP. Any of you pponkers running yours lean of peak?
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

corefile wrote:My pponk/XP470 is going in now - reading through the docs provided from the STC and operation instruction - it says not to run it LOP. I know there are a lot of debate around LOP vs ROP. Any of you pponkers running yours lean of peak?
It is very difficult to run a carbureted engine LOP, especially these large continentals. It’s intake tract is long and convoluted which makes for uneven air/fuel charge to the cylinders. On my pponk for instance the whole left side of the engine leads the right side by roughly 50-75 degrees of EGT. Running carb heat helps some but it’s still a compromise.

This is the whole reasoning behind tuned injectors like gami-jectors.
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

If you only have a single probe CHT, I recommend you install an engine monitor. The 470-50 makes more heat than your old 470 and you may find upon install of multi-probes that you have been cooking cylinders.
Or you may find out another way...

Our factory single probe was telling me that all was well, and then our 6-point engine monitor revealed routinely going above 400F on climb-out in other cylinders. Glad we put it in prior to PPonk install.


180Marty wrote:Flew my XP470 for an hour today since it was so nice-----60 degrees and smooth air so I could run it hard. Looks like about at the yellow for airspeed at 24 square. I had the cowl flaps closed not to long after taking off and temps seemed good. Oil pressure was just above the white line which is 50 so like that better that top of the green like before. Other than a little oil weeping from the crankshaft seal it seems like all is well. Did realize that big balance tube wasn't going to fit before too far along and put the little one from the 470U on. I had Central Cylinder reuse the bearings, cam and followers since they were still in good shape from the overhaul 11 years ago. They are able to machine the crankcase for the 520's since I started with a 470K. Sure like the 100 watt Reiff preheat on the cylinders and one pad on the oil pan(will add the second when motivated). Guess the white spinner doesn't look too bad.

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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

Please pardon the thread drift but,
My Insight CHT #1 probe is flakey so I am trying to order a new one. I am sure it is not the spark plug washer type, but are there any other details I need?
Just Insight CHT probe, spring type?

Flakey as in it provides a reading but not consistently and the G1 diagnostics page shows the resistance as >99 ohms.
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

Check the wire connections first. There are ring terminals about 8 inches back from the probe - if the screws are loose you’ll get high resistance and intermittent readings.

Chris


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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

Did that. Unscrewed the probe wire and checked with ohm meter. Same high resistance. It is odd to me that is functions at all with that much resistance. I am hoping to just pop in a new one at the upcoming oil change. But I need to confirm which one to order.
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

The probe P/Ns or kit# should be in the log from the install. Give those #s when you order the part and they should get you the right one.
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

The G1 is certified primary for CHT so it’s likely that the factory CHT gauge and probe were removed when your G1 was installed. That would mean you use the “spring probe” p/n 2852.

Of course, as the last poster said, the probe part numbers will be in your logbook. Or just send a photo of the installed probe to Insight and they can get you the correct replacement.

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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

Thanks for the replies. I hadn’t gotten a response from the shop so I asked here.
Just to close this, the part number is GEM #2852.

Back to operations, does anyone have a MP, RPM, fuel flow, %BHP chart for a -50? I realize this is a little bit prop dependent. Mine is Hartzell F8068 82”.
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

PNW Flyer wrote:Back to operations, does anyone have a MP, RPM, fuel flow, %BHP chart for a -50? I realize this is a little bit prop dependent. Mine is Hartzell F8068 82”.


It depends on what pistons you have installed (the STC calls for 7.5:1, but many folks use 8.5:1).

With 7.5:1 pistons, use the cruise power charts from a Cessna T210. The TSIO-520-C or R that those aircraft use have similar internal configurations to the O-470-50. In fact, one way of building a PPonk -50 is to start with a TSIO-520-C/R/x and remove the turbo and fuel injection. At similar MP and RPM settings, you should be making the same % power.

With 8.5:1 pistons, you've essentially got a carb'd 520-D or F and the 185 or 206 cruise power charts would work.

That's my opinion and not any form of official guidance.

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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

That is very helpful.
As to pistons, since we opted not to go all-in for power with the IO-550, we went for the emergency mogas capability and stayed with 7.5:1 pistons in Superior Cylinders.
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

Trying to delete double post
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

Halestorm wrote:
Scolopax wrote:
mtv wrote:Kenmore Air used to have a 520 conversion for the 180, which they used on all their 180s. I’m not sure what that conversion is all about, but a phone call can answer that question. At one point, I researched it and I THINK it was a converted 520.

MTV


They have one STC that converts an O-470 to a 520, but I believe that it only applies to the O-470U, which is a slightly different animal than most of the other 470s.
No.

The Kenmore STC uses a converted IO-520D. I installed them when I was a line mechanic at Kenmore.


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"No" eh? Odd, because Kenmore holds STC SE2107NM for the conversion of an O-470-U to a 520 cubic inch displacement engine, and STC SA2069MN for installing that converted engine in Cessna 180's. (As well as other carburated O-520 engines converted from IO-520 engines under STC2068NM) I guess being a line mechanic doesn't make one particularly knowledgeable about the STC's a company holds.
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

AAlexander wrote:
Halestorm wrote:
Scolopax wrote:
mtv wrote:Kenmore Air used to have a 520 conversion for the 180, which they used on all their 180s. I’m not sure what that conversion is all about, but a phone call can answer that question. At one point, I researched it and I THINK it was a converted 520.

MTV


They have one STC that converts an O-470 to a 520, but I believe that it only applies to the O-470U, which is a slightly different animal than most of the other 470s.
No.

The Kenmore STC uses a converted IO-520D. I installed them when I was a line mechanic at Kenmore.


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"No" eh? Odd, because Kenmore holds STC SE2107NM for the conversion of an O-470-U to a 520 cubic inch displacement engine, and STC SA2069MN for installing that converted engine in Cessna 180's. (As well as other carburated O-520 engines converted from IO-520 engines under STC2068NM) I guess being a line mechanic doesn't make one particularly knowledgeable about the STC's a company holds.


Wow, that seems like an unnecessary comment.

You are correct that I was unaware then, this is a 4 year old post, of other models of continental engines that could be converted to a carbureted 520 with a Kenmore STC. If you start looking over the posts I've made on this forum over the last 10+ years it shouldn't be hard to find other factual errors I've made, I can assure you none of them were made on purpose.

In the 15 years (2000-2014) I was a line mechanic there the only 520 converted by the Kenmore engine shop started as IO-520D and none of them went on customer airplanes, that I was aware of, only Kenmore's own 180K.

Pponk pretty much had the market sewn up for converted/carbureted 520 at that time for whatever reason. Perhaps with your knowledge of Kenmore's STC library you can tell us why...
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Re: PPonk/XP470 Instructions

AAlexander wrote:"No" eh? Odd, because Kenmore holds STC SE2107NM for the conversion of an O-470-U to a 520 cubic inch displacement engine, and STC SA2069MN for installing that converted engine in Cessna 180's. (As well as other carburated O-520 engines converted from IO-520 engines under STC2068NM) I guess being a line mechanic doesn't make one particularly knowledgeable about the STC's a company holds.

Please save the attitude for the Facebook/Instagram/Youtube comments "gotcha" game. Halestorm is an extremely friendly and helpful longtime member and personal friend who I'm sure would actually value new information. But you gain no goodwill with the attitude.
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