Unusual attitudes, emergencies, and impossible turn practices yesterday with a friend experienced CFI

beautiful scenary. Where was this?

Hermosa beach in Costa Rica

This is something I would like to see more people practice. I practice this turn quite often as well as tail wind landings.
Some strips are one way in and one way out. Good job.

Ken

That looks like nice place to practice the dreaded turn back to the airport. I have mostly practiced that scenario at altitude. What was the lowest elevation where power was reduced?

500 AGL

Low altitude, sharp turn and the stall warning blaring. Nobody should be "teaching" that.

If you watch closely on the first attempt while in the turn the plane shakes, I recover and shakes again, it was stalling and recovering.

We did practiced power off tight turns at 3,000ft AGL for a while to see how the plane reacted.

I did this practice it like a dozen times, 2 more planes and 4 more pilots over the weekend did it too, I think they did it like 10 times between all of them in total.
Im really glad I practiced this and all the other manouvers (3.5 hrs total)

This is the deal.
My base airport has buldings power lines,rising terrain, and definitely no options to land ahead.
I know (knock on wood) if a failure happens below 500ft AGL Im going straight.

well executed.
better to practice and get good with an engine to bail you out, then to just hope and then take the "crash" course when it really happens.

Here is a view from outside

Jumpy wrote:Low altitude, sharp turn and the stall warning blaring. Nobody should be "teaching" that.

I agree somewhat. If anything, practicing these demonstrates just how nearly impossible it is to pull this off even when you're expecting the engine failure. I'd consider it proof that executing a 180 degree turn is a bad idea. Aviation history is littered with stats that prove that the impossible turn is has been named that for a reason. Every situation is different, of course. If you have the altitude, it'll prob work out ok, but it should not be part of your instant response plan. You may practice these lightly loaded, but doing the same with a heavy load could be a totally different outcome.

That beach looks a lot more survivable, and that should be the primary consideration. Better to fly slowly into jungle than to fall out of the sky into it trying to reach a nice airstrip. I believe the impossible turn is attempted so often because pilots are so focused on the established runway/airstrip being the only place to land. What should be taught in my opinion,is thinking outside the box and practicing quick deductive exercises to get the plane on the ground as intact as possible, which might mean some pretty unorthodox spots.

Moto-

Good on you for practicing this but...

If you dont get eaten alive by this post I will be surprised....

Your practicing this at what AGL? Guessing 800' as the sun lights up your altimeter at 500' midway through the turn...Ever heard of a stall / spin? Betting the turn is also made down wind (maybe light winds whatever) so you now are low, slow and even slower at the apex of that turn with the wind up your ass. A couple of those you have a pretty steep bank with the stall horn blaring, not buffeting. At least give yourself a chance when practicing these and turn into the wind. This is "practice" correct?? And what do steep turns do to you when your slow??

Not to mention, I hate seeing pilots take off and climb straight out. Again, give your self a chance. Once your up and clear of obstacles bank slightly right or left as you continue to climb to allow yourself an opportunity to line up the runway for that left turn instead of putting yourself into a mandatory 45 just to get back to the runway. If you did not have that beach or the ocean you would have a whole lot of jungle. If that engine had quit and you had a 10-15 knt tail wind you would of been in the trees on the third one you did. There are some great videos on the internet. Just watch some of the take offs at Johnson creek last year. Most climb up and out quickly, bank slightly off the runway allowing yourself the opportunity turn back into a strip instead of the woods if something goes wrong. Not to mention the wind being up your ass pushing you down.

Sorry for the rant! I just do not want to read about you!

Anyone else here agree or is it just Monday...

AKT

I have practiced this, however I do it at 3000' AGL. I line up on a road with an intersection to represent the runway threshold, place the airplane in climb-out attitude, then cut the power, turn back and line up on the road. Then see how much altitude I lost. Much safer that way than practicing while low and slow. My absolute minimum is 800'. I can complete the turn and get lined up in 600', but I allow an extra 200' just to be sure. When I take off, turning back isn't even a consideration until I hit 800' AGL.

Zane wrote:What should be taught in my opinion,is thinking outside the box and practicing quick deductive exercises to get the plane on the ground as intact as possible, which might mean some pretty unorthodox spots.

Amen....

Gump

What works at sea level probably won't work at a higher altitude with an even higher density altitude....
If you practice this light and at sea level DA and program yourself to make this turn instinctively....
Well, up high, with a gross load, you make the wrong move without even thinking the situation through because you 'know' how....... Oops, smoking hole!
A smart pilot weighs out his options and wt. and DA and situations/terrain etc-BEFORE the mags get turned on each time.
You want your BRAIN running the show, NOT instinct to do something that only works in ideal situations.

I'm NOT an expert, but I'd say be careful how your program your responses....
lc

Adntl: Being past my 'prime' quick response days (OLD Fart) I have to think things (options) through before I 'get there' so I'll have the best reaction at the top of the list......

All day long on that beach. Does not look like a place you would have to turn all the way around to be ok. Kinda seems like a self inflicted emergency.

Thanks for posting the video.

I do wonder, though, about how differently it would perform without the engine running at idle but actually stopped or with the prop still windmilling. I wonder that when I practice power off landings from the pattern.

I too have practiced this and agree straight ahead is usually much better statistically speaking. If you ever practice it again, try waiting two to three seconds before beginning the recovery. In most instances it takes 3/4 of a second for the brain to recognize the emergency and another 3/4 of a second to implement corrective action and this is in the best case scenario. Based on those time frames is why I say wait for two to three seconds before doing anything. Those precious seconds make a huge difference. I would like to think I could react faster, but probably not. Looked like fun though, stay safe!

Looks like a good thing to practice on top of a cloud deck. I don't think a flight intructor would do much good at that altitude. "I have the airplane", "you have the airplane", "I have the airplane" crunch! I bet he had his toe firmly planted on the top rudder, unless he has a terminal illness.

i'm with AKT, at 500' get it flying and put the nose down and land straight ahead...choose the smallest obstacles to go between. i've found a 182 is built well, part of being certified i guess, and will dissipate a lot of the crunch if u r flying when u put 'er down..turning back to the strip at 500' with out power would be a pretty good mistake i think...like he said at JC, turn slightly right when off, and point it at the notch...