.....let me know and I'll head up your way and pound nails for a couple of days.

We (BCPers) could have a 'barn raising'.....
I am retired in a couple three days and after that (if it fits in my wife's schedule) I could come for a few days and help out. (if nothing else, hand tools to the guys who know how to use them , and be a 'go-fer')

Let us know...
lc

I can hand you guys beers

I agree with kinneyt, you don't need 6" of concrete for an airplane or most vehicles. Steel is useless in a 4" slab too. It is a PITA to keep it down and it will eventually rust because you need 2" of concrete between it and the subgrade. Save your money for something else. 4 - 4/12'' is plenty (2X4's are NOT 4"). Some people like fiber mesh but it breaks too so don't expect it to stop cracks. Use at least 6 bag concrete. I like engineered mixes because they cost less and cure slower so you have a little more time to place it. They have better strength too.

Just pay special attention to the compaction and call a concrete cutting company. Have them cut it into 8' squares as soon as possible and you will never have a problem. You can rent a saw and do it yourself if you don't mind crooked lines. You can put down 2 - 4" base and that will help. Stay away from pea gravel if you don't have good drainage as water will sit under the slab. Plus the truck will screw it up big time when they pull in. If there is a steel mill close use 4120 or 4133 slag if they have it. It is really cheap. Stay away from the black Blast furnace slag because it swells up when wet and can raise the floor. The secret is to have the subgrade as flat as the top. If you have thinner areas it will crack.

On perfect ground you can get by with 10' squares but where you have torn out trees, your ground will not be perfect. Most of the problems with concrete is from surface problems and compaction. If you do it right a 4" floor will last a lifetime. Like kinneyt mentioned. Deepen the front edge and you can put a #4 rebar in that. Any more than that, your wasting money. In case your wondering, I have done concrete for 34 years and owned my own business for 27. PM me if you have any questions.

Take a look at the SIPs building panels. Fast and easey to use.
We set up a 50 x 50 hangar in one day with 3 people.

Ken in Alaska

Littlecub wrote:We (BCPers) could have a 'barn raising'.....

I'd be in for doing that!

I don't know anything about building hangars, but my friend who rented me hangar space a few years ago built his like a normal pole barn, except for the door area. He placed a huge glue-lam beam across there, but because he still didn't trust it not to sag, he had a hinged steel post hanging from the middle to brace it in the event of a huge snow load, which swung to the side and was held there by a block/tackle pulley system, for moving airplanes in and out. I was always worried something would break just about the time my airplane was halfway through the opening.

His doors were top-hung barn door sliders--don't do that!

His floor is a floating concrete floor, separated from the footers with some fiber filler. I think it's about 4", and that's plenty. 12" is "Interstate" thickness, so even 4" will hold much more than you'll ever put in there. But unless it's on well-tamped base, it will crack, even if the cracks are small. Keeping the floor floating and not solidly connected to the footers will minimize the cracking.

Cary

The only thing I can suggest is to build it big enough to fit 2 airplanes, if you can and definitely big enough to fit a larger Ga bird.

The extra space will always be useful.
The resale value will be higher and easier if you ever decide to sell.
You'll have the option to rent the extra space.

GroundLooper wrote:The only thing I can suggest is to build it big enough to fit 2 airplanes, if you can and definitely big enough to fit a larger Ga bird.

The extra space will always be useful.
The resale value will be higher and easier if you ever decide to sell.
You'll have the option to rent the extra space.

All true, so is building it just big enough for your bird allowing for lower initial cost lower property taxes heating and cooling bills etc. I sure seem to see a lot of hangars crammed with a lot of junk other then aircraft. Nothing wrong with building it for one airplane, I spent the money saved on making mine more "deluxe" then a bigger more spartan hangar. Hell I lived in mine while building my house! "Guyworld", a lady friend called it.

A couple of things...first off I wish I had a hangar...but I don't...

If I was building a steel hangar...I would spray-foam the entire interior. Kills the condensation issue just like that.

If I was wanting a hangar door that I didn't design myself...I would get a Para-port door.

http://www.paraportdoor.com/

I did the research, and decided to put up a 72x48x16 Miracle Truss building ourselves at the airport in 2007. The people that did the concrete work got the floor bolts in right, we rented a Zoom Boom, lifted the uprights and trusses in place, it all fit perfectly. Very impressed with the machine work from Miricle Truss. We installed a 48ft bi-fold door in each end. This spring I hired a 50ft wide, 40ft long, 16 high wood frame floatplane hangar put up by the lake at my house, it has a 48ftx16ft hydraulic door. If I was to do it again, it would be another metal frame building, just a lot of beefing up and hassle with the wood frame, that we did not have with the metal building.

Doors: the bi-folds take up a lot of headroom, but are cheaper. The hydraulic door is slick, but as mentioned you have to move more snow out of the way to raise them up in the winter.

Steve

whee wrote:

Littlecub wrote:We (BCPers) could have a 'barn raising'.....

I'd be in for doing that!

Thanks guys,
I am a long ways from building a hangar. My neighbor will mill rough lumber for 8 cents a board foot. Twelve or so red fir trees should do it. Hopefully I'll have the concrete slab poured this summer. The green wood will be chinked and dry for construction next fall.

My current project is to have another neighbor with a mini excavator dig a 320 foot ditch for power-line conduit. I'll set the 3 inch/ 10 foot conduit pipe and backfill with my tracked loader. The power company will move the pole for big $$$$$ OUCH. As far a the hangar construction goes, Idaho County does not require any building permits and thats way cool for me. I think I can build a 42 x 40 wood frame hangar for about 7 to 9K. A comperable prefab would be 19 to 21k.

Anyway next spring I'm planning on a airstrip grand opening-luau, and potluck. I hope some of my backcountry.org friends can make it too.

James
Clear Creek, Idaho

If I was wanting a hangar door that I didn't design myself...I would get a Para-port door.

Hey, thanks a lot , Troy. I learned about a new-to-me option. Looks very intriguing. I'm not on the market for a door right now, but I will 'file' the idea for the future....

Always like to learn something....
lc

Super-Maule wrote:
Thanks guys,
I am a long ways from building a hangar. My neighbor will mill rough lumber for 8 cents a board foot. Twelve or so red fir trees should do it. Hopefully I'll have the concrete slab poured this summer. The green wood will be chinked and dry for construction next fall.

As far a the hangar construction goes, Idaho County does not require any building permits and thats way cool for me. I think I can build a 42 x 40 wood frame hangar for about 7 to 9K. A comperable prefab would be 19 to 21k.

James

James
Have fun with your project -- sounds like fun. It's pretty much what I did here in the Warangell Mountains. Just a word of caution about using rough cut lumber. I've done a lot of construction with it and it takes a lot to get it totally dried out -- even when it has been stickered for a substantial period of time. One season of curing (for white spruce and cotton wood, at least) is usually not enough to adequately dry it out. I often find that it continues to shrink after construction. Permachink does a good job of filling in those cracks -- but that takes time and money as well.

My hangar is a hybrid wood and metal structure that works well way out here in the middle of nowhere. I'm not sure that I would have wanted to use rough cut lumber on it though... It was hard enough with kiln dried.

I suspect that you are going to run into a lot of hidden costs that you didn't expect. That can be discouraging. Nevertheless, you will work your way through to the end and be happy with what you have accomplished. Hope you have good foundation conditions...

Have fun. You are on the right track.
Nizina

Hi James,
Give me a call , I M me at [email protected]
I will send you my phone number or I will call you.

Ken in Alaska

On a related note: I am buying a small piece of ground in town for a hangar for the crane, and much of the same concerns apply. Cost effectiveness, long term maintenance, initial costs, heating costs, and so on. I am getting advice much the same as James on his hangar, all over the board.

I am going traditional concrete foundation /footers and foundation walls, and trading out that work with a buddy who is a pro concrete guy, he'll do it for free! Nothing like getting below the frost line... (unlike any kind of post and beam scenario) and I'll insulate the foundation walls on the inside down to the footers with 2" blueboard before backfilling the floor area, bare concrete foundation walls can be a major heat loss. All I have to do in return is from time to time when he has a tough access job for getting his aluminum forms in and out, perform that job for him with the crane. We did the same thing on my 40 by 20 foot ramp outside my hangar. I do keep track of my time, so at some point I can say no mas, we're square.... this works for us because we know and trust each other. 2x4's on 24" centers, 7/16" OSB sheeting, engineered (more importantly local code approved) trusses on 24" centers. Tin roof and siding. Another long time friend, also in the crane business and a pilot, is a 30 year urathane foam contractor (tidbit:it was developed by the Germans during WW2 for raising sunken subs, true story) and I will get a good deal from him (no trade, not even close to being at his cost, but he won't screw me too bad as we are friends ) 1 to 2" at most thick, the stuff is super effective and makes the building airtight best of all. It burns like hell so don't even think of leaving it exposed in a regular shop, with welding etc. going on, this will be dead or passive storage of the crane, no work other then checking the oil in there, my home shop is for more then that. Too far and high up from town to keep it there though.

No heat system right off, maybe later rad floor heat with an electric boiler set at 40, plenty warm enough. I will pay for this power with the excess I have from my home grid tie power system, in effect heating the crane hangar with the home power system 20 miles away. I just need to get the book keeping figured out with Idaho Power, they have a credit for me of over $500.00 right now, and it gets bigger every month as I produce more then I use.

I will build it just big enough for the 22 ton unit I now have, and a little longer in case I trade up. So that'll be 16 by 40', 14' high, the cranes I prefer are quite compact, my current one is less then 34' long, and if I can't back into a 16' wide area I shouldn't be driving! So, many of the same decisions as building a hangar, (the type of main door will be a big one), now all I have to do is find a place to land nearby and I have, but it wouldn't be politically correct damn it

Backcountypilot friends,
Thanks for the information. I will have a groove cut in the road between the hangar construction and the hardware store 18 miles away in Kamiah, Idaho. As far as the rough lumber goes red fir works real well for me. I have built many fences and recovered our bridge with green red fir. I think a summer with several weeks in the 90s or higher will have it ready for construction next fall.

I can't give away my cottonwood trees. The Idaho Fish and Game Department said they wanted them for creek restoration but they ran out of funding.

On another note when I get my mind on something like this hangar it just doesn't go away until its finished. My 13 year old son will be my right hand man on this project. He has asperger syndrome, and has difficulty in conventional school. So I hope to show him practical application of math and good old hard work to complete this hangar project. Wish us luck.

James
Clear Creek, Idaho

James,
Cottonwood is great decking for equipment hauling trailers. It doesn't shave like fir and others do from tracked equipment, also has some give to it.
I just got what I thought was a great deal on some 3"x6" rough cut fir, didn't last 2 months and I have a broken board.
Back to looking for cottonwood, wish I was closer.

James-

Your project looks awesome! Starting to think about the same on my own piece of land here. I just need to go underground on 2 power poles.

On another note (thread drift) I feel like I owe you a personally apology for things said here on the forum months past. Please accept. My comments were uncalled for and not professional at all.

Good luck with your project.

AKT

aktahoe1 wrote:James-

Your project looks awesome! Starting to think about the same on my own piece of land here. I just need to go underground on 2 power poles.

On another note (thread drift) I feel like I owe you a personally apology for things said here on the forum months past. Please accept. My comments were uncalled for and not professional at all.

Good luck with your project.

AKT

Aktahoe,
No worries. People obviously have different opinions. I'll post when I get my airstrip landable and hope some of you folks can drop in for a visit. This is not a beginner airstip on a whitewater scale of a 4+. Anyway more picking rock, seeding and some hunting this weekend.

James
Clear Creek, Idaho

Super Maule
When I no longer trusted my slapped together shed I bit the bullet and got a metal pre fab. My young son and I put it together.
Built a stinger for my loader to lift the red iron and used a generator for the tec screw shooter. I made stacking doors skined with translucent sheeting, aimed the opening at the winter sun and had a passive solar effect. After chores about 10 am the hangar was usually warm. Would do that differently now as the plastic deteriorated. Dirt floor except for a pad in the center.
A lot of good ideas on this thread

I think these doors were at Idaho Falls? This seemed like a good idea to me. I never liked the thought of all the weight of those big doors hanging from little cables. The doors were one piece and just pivoted up. These were metal boxes filled with concrete. They are counterbalances for the door. A 55 gallon drum should work good.