180Marty wrote:While I haven't bought any straight unleaded gasoline here in Iowa for years, it will be interesting to see what happens since it is still available everywhere and there doesn't seem to be a push to mandate E10.

It has always been the supreme irony that none of the corn states ever passed a mandatory E10 law. The excuse I have always heard for the defeat of those bills is that citizens in the Midwest don't like government telling them what they must do.

I did find out that the pipeline that goes through my field only carries straight 87 octane,91 octane gasoline and diesel----no BOB. It goes to a terminal about 30 miles away that supplies the area.

Patience, it will happen. The changeover has to happen at that terminal. They must install tanks to hold the ethanol and injectors for all of their racks and then the refineries have to change over to BOB, not a trivial task, which is why it generally happens at the semiannual blending changeover. This year more than 85% of the gasoline sold in the U.S. was E10 and every year the blending quota increases. Without E85 there is nowhere to put it, it will go into all of your gasoline in the next 12-18 months.

How long do you think that eth free gas I get in Medford would last (still be good for my 182B) in a 500 gallon farm tank? I have been hearing 3 months from some folks. I cannot believe that It would not be good for at least a year.

Tim

Dean, The ethanol tanks and injectors are already in use at the tank farms. I don't think straight 87 octane is going away in Iowa. Over 70% of our fuel is sold as E10 89 octane(87 plus ethanol) in Iowa and I bet that continues. I'm not sure what to think about the 91 since not much is sold(can't even get it in my town) but even if it does become E10, Rotax says it's OK so just the Petersen STC is out of luck.

Last Sunday I installed a 50 gal tank, 15gpm pump and bonding wire in my flat bed.
Drove to the Pac Pride, one mile from my airport, filled it with eth free and topped off my plane.
I had it all figured out, with the cheeper fuel, I could fly the O-470 for about the same same price as the 165 Franklin......and then I read this kind of crap .

qmdv wrote:How long do you think that eth free gas I get in Medford would last (still be good for my 182B) in a 500 gallon farm tank? I have been hearing 3 months from some folks. I cannot believe that It would not be good for at least a year.

Tim

Modern unleaded mogas w/o ethanol will last a long time. Because of the pollution control devices in modern cars, auto gasoline is also a lot cleaner and more stable today. As I understand it there is a slight decrease in AKI over time. But the key is the summer / winter blending change. Summer blending in many areas has a lower RVP, winter higher. I have heard recommendations that it is not good to run the 3-6 month old winter blend gasoline that has been sitting in your tanks on the first hot day in May. The blending changeover is usually in the March and September time frame. So if your airplane has been sitting through the Spring blending changeover it is probably wise to fly it while it is cold and add some fresh gasoline as soon as you can and top off your storage tank with summer blend.

180Marty wrote:Dean, The ethanol tanks and injectors are already in use at the tank farms. I don't think straight 87 octane is going away in Iowa. Over 70% of our fuel is sold as E10 89 octane(87 plus ethanol) in Iowa and I bet that continues. I'm not sure what to think about the 91 since not much is sold(can't even get it in my town) but even if it does become E10, Rotax says it's OK so just the Petersen STC is out of luck.

First off, just because Rotax tested E10 and said it was usable, they didn't say they recommended it. The real problem in the sLSA world is that it doesn't make a whit of difference what Rotax says. The sLSA manufacturer has to bless the whole package, airframe and engine for E10, just like EAA and Petersen give you two STCs for your TC'd aircraft, one for the airframe and one for the engine. I know of only one sLSA manufacturer that has approved E10 for their products and there are more than 100 sLSA manufacturers.

I don't think it makes much difference how much 87, 89 and 91 is sold in any state or how they make it. The ethanol blending quotas are cast in stone, right now. By 2012 the law says that about 15 billion gallons of ethanol must be blended into gasoline. The U.S. uses maybe 138 billion gallons of gasoline. Where is the surplus 1.2 billion gallons of ethanol going to go? Every year after that it gets worse, 2013 will require 16 billion gallons, and ever upward until 2022. Even if the E15 waiver weren't permissive, but instead mandatory, we would still have a blending wall by 2016 at the latest. And even if the E15 waiver were mandatory, it will take years for the EPA to change their regulations to blend more ethanol into RFG (read CA and every large urban area) and for states that prohibit E15 to change their laws and for equipment manufacturers to have approved equipment ready and on and on and on. I still haven't figured why the ethanol lobbies worked so hard on the E15 waiver when it won't move the blending wall at all.

Dean,check your private message.

Small Tail Caddy wrote:....Drove to the Pac Pride, one mile from my airport, filled it with eth free and topped off my plane......

Don't recall why, but I was under the impression that E-zero was not to be had in Oregon, with the exception of on the airport at Lebanon. You should be sure to test that gas for ethanol- just because the pump isn't placarded doesn't necesarily mean anything. I hope it is E-zero, and that it continues to be available.

hotrod150 wrote: Don't recall why, but I was under the impression that E-zero was not to be had in Oregon, with the exception of on the airport at Lebanon. You should be sure to test that gas for ethanol- just because the pump isn't placarded doesn't necesarily mean anything. I hope it is E-zero, and that it continues to be available.

The latest change to our mandatory E10 law allows any service station or supplier to sell E0 premium to anyone. However it is permissive, so you must find a supply and that is disappearing rapidly and was severely affected by the Tesoro refinery explosion in Washington last Spring. Also, selling premium E0 cannot affect mid-grade E10, and since the vast majority of service stations have only two tanks, one for regular, one for premium and the ubiquitous 3 button pump blends the mid-grade, those stations cannot sell any premium E0. So premium E0 is just as rare as before the law went into effect last January 1.

hotrod150 wrote:

Small Tail Caddy wrote:....Drove to the Pac Pride, one mile from my airport, filled it with eth free and topped off my plane......

Don't recall why, but I was under the impression that E-zero was not to be had in Oregon, with the exception of on the airport at Lebanon. You should be sure to test that gas for ethanol- just because the pump isn't placarded doesn't necesarily mean anything. I hope it is E-zero, and that it continues to be available.

Good to go!
I will keep testing on fill ups.

Dean, my sources for E-zero regular up here in WA went away, but I still have a source for E-zero premium. If all the refineries are producing blendstock, where is this E-zero premium coming from?

hotrod150 wrote:Dean, my sources for E-zero regular up here in WA went away, but I still have a source for E-zero premium. If all the refineries are producing blendstock, where is this E-zero premium coming from?

I don't think I ever said that all of the refineries are producing BOB yet. There are four major refineries in WA and I know one of them, the BP refinery only makes BOB according to the terminal report I saw. The Tesoro refinery isn't making anything from what I have heard, they are still recovering from the explosion last spring and are supposed to start up again this month. They were the major source of premium E0 in Oregon, and I know this has put the squeeze on premium unleaded here and we are now having to get it from the Boise terminal. The last terminal report I saw from last Spring showed both E0 regular and premium available from a number of terminals on the sound but I know from testimony last January in WA, over the bill to provide E0 for the marine industry, that Western States Petroleum Assoc. told the legislature that clear gasoline was going to disappear from the terminals in WA as they converted to using BOB to make E10. It is only a matter of time. By the end of next year the ethanol quotas in the federal RFS mandate are going to swamp the gasoline industry. What is interesting is that information from pilots in the Northeast that I have received is they can still get some regular E0, but no premium. I think it just depends on how the terminals and their supplying refineries convert over to meet their ethanol quotas.