Hello,

Received a Continental Reman O-470R for my 180.

Any ways of establishing if they put a new Cranckcase or at least know its manufacturing year?

Brgds

Manuel

Check with whoever did the reman. All parts used are supposed to be traceable and sources verified. If it is a case that’s been re-worked, the service order records may contain the parts total time.

To me, "reman" implies that Continental built it.

hotrod180 wrote:To me, "reman" implies that Continental built it.

That's what I've always been told. Only the manufacturer can re-manufacture and truly zero time and engine. Everyone else overhauls or repairs. And as we all know, not all overhauls are created equal.

Bagarre wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:To me, "reman" implies that Continental built it.

That's what I've always been told. Only the manufacturer can re-manufacture and truly zero time an engine. Everyone else overhauls or repairs. And as we all know, not all overhauls are created equal.

That’s my understanding too. Also, zero time isn’t necessarily a good thing since all it means is Continental built the engine from their pile of parts from other core engines and eliminated all traceability of those parts. So they put a new data plate on the case and call it a zero-time reman.

Continental keeps pretty good records so if this engine is a Continental reman you can call them with your serial number and they can pull the build sheet. I did that on my engine which was remand in 1994 and they were able to tell me which parts were new/used and which cylinders they put on it. Everyone I’ve talked to at Continental have been really nice and happy to help.

When you have Western Skyways overhaul your motor THEY call it their Gold Seal Reman...

whee wrote:….Continental keeps pretty good records so if this engine is a Continental reman you can call them with your serial number and they can pull the build sheet. I did that on my engine which was remand in 1994 and they were able to tell me which parts were new/used and which cylinders they put on it. Everyone I’ve talked to at Continental have been really nice and happy to help.

Thanks for that info.
I have a 470K which was "rebuilt / zero-timed on 11/11/93 by Teledyne Continental Motors" per the first entry.
The logbook cover says "Gold Medallion Aircraft Engine" and "Rebuilt Engine Log".
I note that they do not refer to it as a reman.
I'd like to know if they put new cylinders on it--
when overhaul time comes, it might make economic sense to overhaul them instead of replace with new
if they're first run units.
depends on condition and respective costs of course.

I purchased a reman Continental 470 (through Van Bortel) a few years ago and it came with a build sheet from Continental showing every part on the engine. The crankcase was a one run and everything else was brand new.

It would be interesting to find out what they actually do. Everything I’ve read stated that they disassemble, knock off the old I.D. plate and throw the cases, cranks, etc. in their perspective “pile”, and then go grab them as needed, so a guy wouldn’t know if it’s a second run or fifth run part. I also was under the impression that the cylinders were always new, but again, it’d be interesting to know the facts. Continentals website doesn’t, seems to provide those details, but I gather a phone call would likely clarify

It's worth mentioning that the pile of parts Continental pulls from to reman an engine have been cleaned, conditioned, inspected and verified to be within new limits.

True, that would probably eliminate a crankshaft, that at some point, would need to be ground .010 undersized, etc. from being considered "new spec", but hard to say on a crankcase half. That being said, their procedure must be pretty tried and true, the factory remans have a good reputation. I'm pretty certain they use new cylinders, also.

Even the crank case halves need to be within spec.
Mains can be line bored back to spec a few times before deck height is out of spec but other measurements cant.

Question: Serviceable limits vs new limits.
I was told that an item within serviceable limits may be used in a repair but not an overhaul.
For an overhaul to honestly be an overhaul, all parts must be within new limits.
Is this true?

I am doing this for my IO-360 overhaul ( to new limits) but I can't find documentation to back it up.
The Continental overhaul manual does not say a part needs to be within new limits - or at least I didn't find it stated that way.

Bagarre wrote:Question: Serviceable limits vs new limits.
I was told that an item within serviceable limits may be used in a repair but not an overhaul.
For an overhaul to honestly be an overhaul, all parts must be within new limits.
Is this true?

Parts that fall within serviceable limits can still be used in an engine considered "overhauled".

Bagarre wrote:
That's what I've always been told. Only the manufacturer can re-manufacture and truly zero time and engine. Everyone else overhauls or repairs. And as we all know, not all overhauls are created equal.

You are correct that only a manufacturer (or an agency approved by the manufacturer) can re-manufacture or re-build an engine. The FAR's state:

FAR Part 43.2(a) An overhauled product has been "disassembled, cleaned, inspected, repaired as necessary, and reassembled ... and tested in accordance with approved standards and technical data ... acceptable to the Administrator which have been developed and documented by the holder of the type certificate".

FAR Part 43.2 (b) A rebuilt product as one that has been "disassembled, cleaned, inspected, repaired as necessary, reassembled, and tested to the same tolerances and limits as a new item".

A "rebuilt" (or re-manufactured) engine is still made up from used parts, they just must meet "new" standards for dimensions and testing, but you don't get the history from those parts as the engine's logs from those parts are thrown out.

Hman442 wrote:True, that would probably eliminate a crankshaft, that at some point, would need to be ground .010 undersized, etc. from being considered "new spec"

You may be surprised. I have overhauled a bunch of engines, recently overhauled an 0-360A1A that had accumulated nearly 5,000hrs over its lifetime, the crankshaft main and rod journals still mic'd out to new limits. If main and rod bearings have the proper clearance and the engine is taken care of, ideally there is never metal/metal contact of any kind, the journals just ride in an oil film and literally never wear. I think its the really cold starts, running old/dirty oil or abuse that wears them. That same engine had the typical cracks that are often found on lycoming cases, between the cylinder hold down studs/through studs and the cylinder holes. It was last "overhauled" by Lycoming in the mid 90's.

Tks for all comments and sorry for my delay.

Called Continental and they told me the crankcase I got was a used heavy case, had no further info to provide of it.

Crankshaft was a new one.

Very happy with the engine.

Brgds,

Manuel