qmdv wrote:None of you guys are smart enough to make a good choice for yourself. That is why the government with the help with the lobbies is here to make those choices for you. BOHICA.

Tim

Hey dirtsrip, did you think I was serious

Tim

Yesterday I received Cessna Service newsletter SNL 10-5 in the mail, entitled "Ethanol based fuel not approved for use in cessna airplanes". Bottom line (literally): " These tests and avaluations also suggest that operational safety may be compromised by the use of ethanol based fuel" with several reasons cited.
I'm sure that this SNL is available online if you wanna review it.

qmdv wrote:

qmdv wrote:None of you guys are smart enough to make a good choice for yourself. That is why the government with the help with the lobbies is here to make those choices for you. BOHICA.

Tim

Hey dirtsrip, did you think I was serious

Tim

Absolutely not. Did you think I was referring to you? I like a good joke as well as the next.

Sometimes reading it yourself is better than me telling. I can tell you that unless you sabotage it, ethanol is not very corrosive.

180Marty- I don't understand. What's your point?

180Marty- I don't understand. What's your point?

I was responding to hotrod150's post to show that Cessna's dream fuel can cause problems too.

180Marty wrote:

180Marty- I don't understand. What's your point?

I was responding to hotrod150's post to show that Cessna's dream fuel can cause problems too.

What does dream fuel have to do with it. Bet those "O" rings would have problems with any gasoline. Just bad material was used and that is a plug for ethanol why?

Tim

I don't see how a bad batch of O-rings has any bearing whatsoever on the pro-con ethanol argument. This statement from the Cessna service letter, however, seems pretty damn compelling:

"Ethanol-based fuels are not compatible with some fuel system components. We have seen examples of extreme corrosion of ferrous components, the formation of salt deposits, jelly-like deposits on fuel strainer screens, and internal separation of rubber fuel tank parts."

Kinda seals it for me...

I got the service letter too and it also states that ethanol is NOT to be used in any Cessna products. So if your plane goes down and they can't find out why, it could be attributed to using a non approved fuel. Your insurance company wouldn't be too happy with that.

Marty, I don't believe that Cessna has a dog in the ethanol fight. Why would they take such a strong anti-ethanol positioon unless they felt it was warranted? Reading the service newsletter, it reaffirms why I don't wanna use ethanol- partially cuz of the corrosion & deposit issues, and (mainly) cuz of the water-bonding issue.
I'm sure Cessna is not pro-cargas, mainly for liability reasons, but I have never seen them come out against cargas like this. Note that they do not say cargas, they say "ethanol-based fuels".

it reaffirms why I don't wanna use ethanol- partially cuz of the corrosion & deposit issues,

I should quit responding and let you believe what you want to. Cessna obviously didn't use the same ethanol that is being produced by fuel ethanol plants in this country. I have heard that some labs use something called "aggressive" ethanol, whatever that is. Maybe it doesn't have the anti-corrosion additive. As Tim said before, Texas Skyways has an STC to use AGE85(88%) and all that is modified is the jet in the carb and some paper work. Maybe more is better.

Cessna may not have a dog in this hunt but one individual in this thread has a highly financial vested dog in this hunt.

EZFlap wrote:It was explained to me that using car gas in the airplane is just not a good idea, regardless of whether you pull the Ethanol out. The problem is (and this indeed has been mentioned on this forum and others previously by other people) that airplane fuel is a predictable and repeatable guarantee of one level of quality. Car fuel is all over the place in terms of quality, different additives, levels and qualities of distillation. Moreover, car gas degrades and changes over time where airplane gas will not deteriorate.

Really? What's the "quality" issue? I thought octane level was regulated and must meet minimums or there are steep fines involved. Is it just the additives and other junk in the gas? I use 91 auto fuel almost exclusively because I got tired of dealing with lead fouling.

Here's a little info on aggressive ethanol.

Here is the conclusion of the fuel pump test. Notice what they added to make aggressive ethanol. I don't think the fuel stations add that stuff around here.

I read the Cessna SNL but I wonder if anyone else did. The reference of the letter strictly addresses "ethanol based fuel" such as AGE-85 fuel as a substitute for 100LL. AGE-85 is, as Cessna refers to it, an "ethanol based fuel". That should not be confused with petroleum based fuels such as E10, E20 or any other petroleum based fuel that contains its major fuel component as gasoline but uses ethanol as an octane enhancement. Cessna did not address those.
I cannot confirm or deny Cessna's testing results with those that have been going on for many more years than theirs at South Dakota State University but since it is relatively close to me you can bet I will be checking that out. It was their research at SDSU in cooperation with NDSU that led to the STC by Texas Skyways. Most of those STC's are for Cessna's

N1593Y, I just talked to the driver delivering to a Casey's General Store. He said that 87 octane unleaded(that we can still buy in pure form) is what comes up the pipeline and E10 is made using that and ethanol. Also, some 91 octane and diesel come up the same line. Different brands all use the same fuel except for a little additive that the driver adds. Sounds like you could water wash our E10 and go back down to 87 octane if us ethanol fans get our way and get E10 and E15 mandated and scrap the E0.

if us ethanol fans get our way and get E10 and E15 mandated and scrap the E0

180Marty, I'm curious as to why you think it's right that ethanol be MANDATED in all gasoline. Optional, sure. But why should this be forced down the throats of those who don't want it?

Because he knows ethanol won't survive if it isn't?

180Marty, I'm curious as to why you think it's right that ethanol be MANDATED in all gasoline.

Too many people believe all the misinformation and won't use it. A few years ago my cousin was going to fill his daughter-in-law's van when she was down here visiting. He asked if she wanted E0 or E10 and she says I don't want E10 because it will ruin the van. She is from Minnesota and didn't realize E10 was the steady diet of that van and it was running fine. Also, the more ethanol we use the less chance of this happening---behindpropellers posted this on Supercub and we can keep more money in this country. Ethanol money is what bought the new MT propeller and I think Flight Resources is happy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9A36A3GTcY