Not too proud but wanted to show it

So what was wrong with that ??

Nice sunny day on the BC west coast.

Did the sunglasses help? I always rankle a bit at the term "scud run", it was probably coined by airline pilots that stay at 30,000' until it's time to land and if the autoland messes up then they still have fuel for an alternate 1000 miles away. Slow down, know where you are, don't hit a tower or wire, don't get boxed in tighter than your turning radius, don't go past your PNR if the weather is uncertain. It's just how we get around.

Thanks for sharing.

Love flying on scuddy days......

A rule we flew by in the "old" days...

If the weather is too bad to fly IFR, we'll make the trip VFR. [emoji41]

Gump

Those conditions don't look too awfully bad, beautiful footage. I too enjoy flying in a low cloudy rainy environment, within reason.

There is a reason though that the dire stats exist for VFR flight into IMC. Often it works out fine if everything is pretty static weather wise; you can just fly around, poke your head in and retreat if you have to. But I had a situation one time while trying to land the coast here in Oregon where it closed in around me as I was descending lower and lower to stay under it. The next thing I knew it was on the ground over there --> and I was looking back <-- there for a way out. It was changing rapidly all around me and I got lucky to retest back to the place I hoped was still open. On the coast, if you're an half decent instrument pilot you can just point it toward the open ocean and commit yourself to gong IFR. But if you're a noob VFR only pilot, or hell any pilot, doing this close to terrain and it closes in on you, things will get exciting in a hurry.

Gump has 25,000+ hours, and it's true that not much ruffles his feathers but he does enjoy a bit of cowboy bravado in his tales and jokes on this site. He didn't survive all those years in shitty weather Alaska by being reckless or stupid.

Well.... I DON'T have 25,000+ hours, but I do have a bunch, with a lot of those hours in shit weather.

You can fly quite safely in scud conditions, provided:

You know exactly where you are.

You know where your gotchas are.

You have Plan B, C, and D locked and loaded, and are in the mind-set to use them instantly if shit goes south, because shit will go south instantly.

You are instrument proficient, even if your airplane isn't. A needle-ball-airspeed will keep you alive IMC while you sort said shit out.

As for being reckless and stupid. Ask my ex's, they'll tell ya. But not too often in an airplane. Always had dumb luck and was able to plot and scheme my way out of killing myself.

Gump

To tell the truth I enjoyed this , Its a GPS approach to my uncle's farm, the ridge is the missed point, looked it was going to be missed, but saw the gap to my right side so went for it, I could see the flat area of the farm past the gap.

As for why I said Im not proud? I posted this in Beechtalk and got a lot of flak, so didnt want to offend anyone in here, but the crowd here is my kind of crowd though

As for the glasses I think they do help a bit to distingush clouds.
I have tried on and off and always prefer on.

From your many fine videos, that seems to be common weather there during the day. It looks like steam fog, but I don't think so. The steam fog I have had problems with comes up with the heating of the sun on rain soaked vegetation in early morning. Both spraying and flying pipeline, I have been caught by steam fog forming rapidly from the ground up. Both times, I put it on the ground (off field) immediately. If the fog is just forming everywhere, turning back does not work. What Gump said about immediate transition is important.

I liked your slow power/pitch approach. I would not have wanted to go around in those conditions. A missed approach would not be so bad. You seemed to know the area quite well. Wires and towers do not seem to be an issue there or in Alaska where Gump worked. A big advantage flying pipeline was that we could usually get back out using the pipeline right of way as a visual highway. Wires and towers are a big issue here. That is why I never climbed for a dangerous transition to IMC.

April 6th was the two year mark since we lost a family member doing a scud run in a 182.http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20130407X01535&ntsbno=WPR13FA183&akey=1 Watching little kids bury their Daddy will change your perspective on scud runs. If you're not instrument proficient, whether you have the rating or not, you're flirting with disaster. If you are instrument proficient, but don't have something on board to avoid terrain while you're in the soup, you're only slightly better off.

I love the terrain feature on foreflight and I can bring up low altitude IFR charts in a flash. The thing that surprised me about instrument flying was how different clouds are compared to foggles. Entering clouds that swirl in circles around your windows especially with the sun behind them is an incredible disorienting experience that simulating doesn't prepare you for.

That's a sad NTSB report. Inexperience, no IFR rating, and IMC is a deadly combination pretty much every time.

Scud running is fun to do to a certain extent. Days like in Motoadve's video are perfect. He had crisp visibility under the layer, and he knew exactly where he was. Lots of options, pretty much a non-event.

We did it for a living in the Arctic, and spent thousands of hours over the same terrain day in, day out, and earned our way into that milkbowl getting tighter and tighter. Old guys flew when new guys didn't for a good reason. And, we knew when not to fly. Important too.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:Well.... I DON'T have 25,000+ hours...

Gump

A missed oportunity to go legend right there!



Enjoying the knowledge, wisdom and experience being shared on this thread.

CW

Pipeline flying is similar to what Gump is talking about. A typical loop is 3500 miles, but that is over the same 50' wide by 3500 miles weekly. After a few runs we can anticipate every tower, high line crossing, tough terrain, etc. We flew in weather so bad that a direct course to the nearest GPS located airport was just too dangerous. We would go back down the pipeline right of way to get clear, and then to the nearest airport or landing zone. Most pipeline pilots are old guys, but even young guys get about 1200 hours of experience a year.

I don't have any problem with the weather, for you, not for me. Although I've flown in very limited visibility, like 2 miles, I'm so uncomfortable in it that I don't do it if I can avoid it, even if I'm very familiar with the terrain. I'm not bothered at all by a low ceiling, but with good vis under it. So no criticism from me--each to his own. I wouldn't do it myself, but as long as you know exactly where you are and the weather is stable, I don't see a safety issue.

Of course, having an IR and being capable to climb out of the situation makes a good "out". But I won't do SE IFR in the mountains. I have done SE IFR over the mountains in my younger, foolisher years, but I won't do that now.

Cary

GumpAir wrote:You can fly quite safely in scud conditions, provided:

You know exactly where you are.

You know where your gotchas are.

You have Plan B, C, and D locked and loaded, and are in the mind-set to use them instantly if shit goes south, because shit will go south instantly.

You are instrument proficient, even if your airplane isn't. A needle-ball-airspeed will keep you alive IMC while you sort said shit out.


Gump

Well said Gump!

It can and will change fast!

Plan "A" is to get there!

If that doesn't work plan "B" is to turn back and make it to somewhere else!

Some times in front of you then you turn around just to find behind you has closed up too!

Then it's time for plan C, D, etc......

Plan C, D, or some letter has to be put it on the ground now. If we go that deep, there will be times when we have messed up and gone too far. Acceptance is a hard thing, especially for a pilot. Acceptance is the difference between a small chance of making it and living. Nobody needs to die in an airplane.

Always!

When the "in the box" options start going Tango Uniform, you'd better start thinking "outside the box," and that means "where do I park this f**king thing? Now!"

Same goes for canyon turns and getting trapped by an unslope you can't outclimb. At some point you gotta admit that you've run out of options other than land as slowly and softly as possible regardless of what's under you.

Gump

ahh yes, brings back memories. Looks a lot like my old commutes. Reminds me of a route I flew into Elim, needed 1150' to hop the notch in the ridge then follow the draw down to the beach, left turn dropped you right onto short final for 01. No way I was ever going to record my flights though, no camera anyway. Last thing I needed was anyone telling me how wrong I was to fly like that and have the FAA sticking their nose in .

Gump, who I have a lot of respect for because he has flown up there many, many more hours than I, is exactly right as always. you plan ahead, learn the terrain, and are always thinking options, otherwise, you would rarely go anywhere.

I always tell flight students "Don't pass up bad for worse"...Scud running is living close to a bad option, like having to land in a field (and maybe bending an airplane) so that you don't have to experience the worse option which is dying. Your time allowance for admitting you are done and choosing illegal IFR or landing in a field/road/lake, is very short. Without some good experience (and real knowledge of the area) that time will come and go before you make the decision. Flying the PNW has made me less averse to scud, but I still have a healthy respect.

Littlewheel, do you think scud running is something that primary students (or, commercial or instrument) should be exposed to as part of the curriculum by a CFI?

There is an art to it, and actually a fair amount of technical "how to" involved to function safely. Or do you think it would embolden them, and make new kids more likely to push where they have no business being?

I learned spin recovery as a student pilot not just recognition because my CFI felt it important, and, as my primary instructor was an ag guy/former high time Alaska Beaver driver, I spent quite a few hours on the deck in my PA-18 with him, learning his view on scud running and NOE flying. When I ended up in Barrow AK for my first flying job, I was actually fairly well prepared, even though it took a full year of flying to where I got to the point I didn't think each flying day was going to be my last day on earth.

Gump