That would be perfect to me. But living in San Diego is an issue, not many tailwheelers here. I am willing to go out to Borrego , even base it there, or Fallbrook, or Ramona. May have a better chance at getting what Im looking for and meet some people in the know.

And yes, I do understand Im starting down what could be an expensive path but I don't have a lot of interest in flying 172's for a hunder dollar hamburger every weekend.

I am kinda thick skulled when it comes to getting what I want. I will nibble at shit till Im where I want to be. For example- I was born and raised in a shithole called Pasadena Texas. I learned to surf and learned quickly that being a surfer on the Texas coast wasn't going to cut it so I moved to San Diego.
Then I found Backcountry Snowboarding..........not a lot of snow falls along the Mexican border so I go up to the Eastern Sierra during the winter. 7 hour drive each way. Just because I like it.

Now I have discovered flying, have the bug but want to camp and fly, land on dirt and grass ect.

And no, I wont be relying on a plane to take me to the Sierra, as I go when the weather man says stay at home and Im very knowledgeable about the Devil Winds of the Owens Valley

My main concern would be parts availability if I go with something like a Luscombe

AOPA insurance quoted me in the 1500/yr price range, other companies in 12-1500 range on my $22k Pacer. I had 0 TW time and about 100hrs overall. My local insurance agent worked with this guy through Aviation Insurance Managers in Uniontown, Ohio and he got me the same coverage for $980/yr. JR Garasich of Acceleration Aviation is his name, I believe. I've heard from others that AOPA was their highest quote as well.

Pacers are awesome. Mine weighs 1030# with 8.00x6s and 0-320 and a 920# useful load. It's a 1950 so lacking all the fancy stuff like split seat, baggage door etc that are nice but add weight. I've taken it over 17k ft on a 90deg day. Controls are light and sporty and it's a blast to fly. You can literally remove or install the rear seat in 15 seconds leaving a large space for camping stuff. I can put a mountain bike in the back if I take the wheels off. It's good for what it is, and has it's shortcomings like all airplanes. Performance is shocking solo and light fuel, and disappointing near gross.

Zzz
The reason I say it is overpriced is because if you look around a bit you can find a similar equipped pacer for a quite a bit less money. It is a supply and demand thing. As far as keeping a fabric plane outside, wing covers can do more harm then good. I would not use them unless it was to help with frost in the morning or with spoilers to help with high winds when camping.
DENNY

DENNY wrote:Zzz
The reason I say it is overpriced is because if you look around a bit you can find a similar equipped pacer for a quite a bit less money. It is a supply and demand thing. As far as keeping a fabric plane outside, wing covers can do more harm then good. I would not use them unless it was to help with frost in the morning or with spoilers to help with high winds when camping.
DENNY

DENNY,

show us one.....relatively new fabric, low time engine, wing extensions, and other mods. That looks like a pretty nice plane, and as Z noted, try installing all that stuff and see what the total comes to.

MTV

I give up, he will not find a better deal and should buy it today.
DENNY

Looks like a pretty fair asking price on both of those planes. I have a VERY-almost identical- like-equipped/timed '59 22/20-150, except mine is way prettier (biased, obviously) and would not sell for $50k

sierrasplitter wrote:Called AOPA insurance yesterday . Found out why the guy in my club pays 400 a month. Its for commercial lease back insurance. Because He has multiple pilots, students and CFI's fly the plane.
Im sure He is listing the aircraft as an LLC and claiming all legal tax deductions that go along with it.

Not to Hi Jack the thread but I started throwing out numbers to the AOPA Insurance guy. With 0 hours in a Piper Pacer, priced at 30K I could get insurance at 1404 a year. For a Cessna 170 that jumps to 2036 a year. thats 3oK hull value and 1 million in accident

Although putting a cloth aircraft outside isn't good, for me Outside is the only option. I need to find something with Metal , a Transponder with mode C, radio and at 30K or less. Needs enough power to climb due to mountains

Looking at - Luscombe ,Piper Pacers, Taylorcraft, Cessna 140's, Cessna 170"s
and any other tailwheelers in that price range

I will be ready to buy within six months

A partner would allow me to afford a 170B

suggestions ?

No worries on the hijack. I'm loving all of this discussion! I've been out in the Mojave desert on a business trip for a couple days and was glad to see all the replies.

sierrasplitter, we have a lot in common! I go up to Mammoth a bunch every winter and love the Sierras. I don't think partnership would work. Long distance relationships usually end badly. SD is too far from Hermosa Beach. I couldn't deal with the traffic to get to a plane in the middle.

Finding hanger space at Torrance airport is a challenge. And honestly, it would be tough to afford it.

Is tieing a Pacer which is covered with modern fabric down outside reasonable? It would be at Torrance, CA. The climate is extremely mild. Min temp 45 - Max temp 85 throughout the year with a couple outlier days. Rarely rains, no thunderstorms so wind is not usually extreme. The ocean is only a few miles away, so dew falls at night and may have some salt content.

Moto, I wouldn't worry about tying a fabric plane down outside. I've done I for a number of years and plane still looks good. As long as the fabric has been properly done, it should last just fine.

moto657 wrote:Finding hanger space at Torrance airport is a challenge. And honestly, it would be tough to afford it.

Is tieing a Pacer which is covered with modern fabric down outside reasonable? It would be at Torrance, CA. The climate is extremely mild. Min temp 45 - Max temp 85 throughout the year with a couple outlier days. Rarely rains, no thunderstorms so wind is not usually extreme. The ocean is only a few miles away, so dew falls at night and may have some salt content.

Go to Alaska, and look at all the fabric planes tied down outside. Not too many pretty ones. Now consider that UV is the worst enemy of fabric......and in California......lots of UV, especially compared to Alaska.

If I had to park outside in California, I’d be looking at metal airplanes.

MTV

Yeah Moto, we are too far apart. But we are looking for the same thing. I have the wife convinced the payment, tiedown and insurance are affordable..........then she hit me with that sinking question

"What about other costs? " Dammit

DENNY wrote: The reason I say it is overpriced is because if you look around a bit you can find a similar equipped pacer for a quite a bit less money....

I can see Denny's point.
But this Pacer is "overpriced" for a reason.
Look at the specs, buying a beater and getting it into this condition (fabric / paint is only 6 years old)
would set you back a lot more than $50K, esp if you had to hire out much of it.

I was thinking about buying a Pacer about 10 years ago, & ran into the same thing.
All I found were rough ones which I'd be looking at recovering before too long,
or freshly rebuild ones that were priced too high.
Very little in between.

moto657 wrote: Finding hanger space at Torrance airport is a challenge. And honestly, it would be tough to afford it. ....

What's it cost to rent a decent t-hangar there.
And if there's privately owned hangars, what's the ballpark price to buy one?

I'm in the same boat. Looks like my first airplane is being flown into my airport tomorrow. 54 pa22/20. It's one of those ratty ones people talk about. But... It's a low time 150hp. Disk brakes, sealed struts, Scott 3200 tailwheel etc. For my first airplane, it doesn't need to be pretty. I'll handle that at a later date (and after my A&P school ends)

I also looked heavily at Stinsons. This one just came up first.

Insurance wise your figures seem on par with what I found. AIG was the least expensive. At 1600$. That is with zero tailwheel time. And only 65 hours total.

DENNY wrote:I give up, he will not find a better deal and should buy it today.
DENNY

That's the spirit! Let's sell some airplanes!

hotrod180 wrote:

Zzz wrote:….I think I enjoy my Pacer more than I did my 170.

Photo please!
Where's it based, Z?

Too embarrassing.
It's in Oregon

Zzz wrote:

DENNY wrote:Pacers are great bang for the buck planes!! The one for sale is overpriced.

Maybe. You could go out, buy a ratty Pacer for $20K or less, then spend $30K without blinking while trying to turn it into the one in that ad. No one wants to spend much money on a Pacer, despite them being a wonderful and capable airplane. They have been forever branded as "value" airplanes.

I think I enjoy my Pacer more than I did my 170.

I don't fly my Tripacer often enough. But every time I get in it and go, I am struck by how fun it is. Just an incredibly responsive, zippy little thing. I love it.

As for my take on the airplanes...the nice one is definitely worth the $50K. IMHO.

I bought a $15K Tripacer. I have probably ended up spending over $40K on it and it is still nowhere near as nice as that plane is...

hotrod180 wrote:

moto657 wrote: Finding hanger space at Torrance airport is a challenge. And honestly, it would be tough to afford it. ....

What's it cost to rent a decent t-hangar there.
And if there's privately owned hangars, what's the ballpark price to buy one?

Looks like there is only 1 available now. 873 Sq ft @ $0.639/sqft.

$557.85 / month. $6694 / year! Tie down is $113/MO. $1356/year. If I get a plane I'll need to tie it down outside.

If there were hangers for sale, there's no way I could buy one. Real estate is ridiculous around here.

Zzz wrote:

hotrod180 wrote: Photo please! Where's it based, Z?

Too embarrassing. It's in Oregon

Come on, where's your Pacer Pride?
First of all, I'm reminded of the "rat bikes" from my Harley-riding days--
it was a point of pride to have the rattiest (not the nicest) scooter.
Secondly, what's that quote?.....
"what's the best airplane? the one you're flying at the time".

Come to Kern Valley the last weekend in September and meet a lot of local SoCal pilots that do this sort of flying. There will probably be a Pacer or two, as well as a lot of other folks flying more affordable type planes and still playing in the dirt.



And some photos of the cheaper side of backcountry capable airplanes (a lot of these were at Kern Valley last year):


Cessna 120's


Cessna 120's


Early model C172 and an Alon Ercoupe


75HP J-3, Cessna 120, and a 150/150 Taildragger on Cessna 140 gear


Cessna 120 and 140


Cessna 120 and 140


PA22/20-180 and 120


65 HP Champ


Ercoupe and 85 HP J-3


120 and Stinson 108-1


120 and PA22-150


65HP Taylorcraft BC-12D


Mighty Cessna 150


Beech Musketeer


120