Backcountry Pilot • So I met with the Feds this AM.....

So I met with the Feds this AM.....

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a64pilot wrote: The person that realizes their mistake and is obviously not going to repeat it, I believe get's treated differently than someone that has the attitude of "it's a free country, and that's my airplane, and I can do anything I want to with my airplane"


Yeah, but....

There's a few of us left who still believe that this is a free country, and we have the right to take risks and push our limits as long as we aren't hurting anyone else. I'm sure that my thinking is old-fashioned and outdated in today's Big Brother world, but so be it. Be a cold day in hell before I tuck my tail and grovel in front of some petty bureaucrat for doing something I feel I have the right to do. Catch me... Fine. Apologize, no.

And it's a Darwinian thing too. I've survived a whole lot of years, and a whole lot of hours in some pretty harsh places. Foolish and reckless hours, no. I've never put a scratch on an airplane. But on my own, and not really concerned about rules made up a long, long ways away and by people not sitting in an airplane with me, yes.

Gump
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GumpAir wrote:
a64pilot wrote: The person that realizes their mistake and is obviously not going to repeat it, I believe get's treated differently than someone that has the attitude of "it's a free country, and that's my airplane, and I can do anything I want to with my airplane"


Yeah, but....

There's a few of us left who still believe that this is a free country, and we have the right to take risks and push our limits as long as we aren't hurting anyone else. I'm sure that my thinking is old-fashioned and outdated in today's Big Brother world, but so be it. Be a cold day in hell before I tuck my tail and grovel in front of some petty bureaucrat for doing something I feel I have the right to do. Catch me... Fine. Apologize, no.

I would like to just say AMEN to that! Bob

And it's a Darwinian thing too. I've survived a whole lot of years, and a whole lot of hours in some pretty harsh places. Foolish and reckless hours, no. I've never put a scratch on an airplane. But on my own, and not really concerned about rules made up a long, long ways away and by people not sitting in an airplane with me, yes.

Gump
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Gump,
That's why we live in Nevada. Just desert and some sheep (oops).
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dlhanst wrote:Gump,
That's why we live in Nevada. Just desert and some sheep (oops).


And burgers in Mina....

Life is is still good out here!!!!!!

Gump
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Gump,
I ain't passing judgement. I'm not the one to do that. Just passing on observations on how I've seen things go for other people. Thankfully I've not been under that magnifying glass.
I try to make decisions and actions that I won't be ashamed of later. I assume that's your point?
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a64pilot wrote:Gump,

I try to make decisions and actions that I won't be ashamed of later. I assume that's your point?


My point is, why are we acting like scared sheep when it comes to the FAA? We accept all the rules and regs without a whimper, and are slowly being strangled to death. Like little frogs in a slowly boiling pot. The comment I hear so often is, "Oh my God, you can't do that, it'll just bring them down on us even more, and they'll take all our privileges away." I work hard to earn the income needed to buy and feed my airplane. I see it as my right, not privilege, to use that airplane as I see fit.

Where the hell are we living? In Russia under Stalin??? Seems like it to me with the attitudes I see. Oppressors and sheep. I'm like you in that I see myself as a sheepdog, not a sheep, and I will make noise and not give in easily. That's my point.

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dlhanst wrote:Gump,
That's why we live in Nevada. Just desert and some sheep (oops).


My understanding is that a good sheep can hear a zipper some 50 yards out. :shock:
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This whole incident and conversation reassures me that I am living in the best country in the world. This country was built on Liberty, Freedom and Choice. If I have something to say, I will say it publicly without the fear of a Nazi around the corner waiting for me.

Gump has pretty much summed it all up.

Good Luck AKTahoe.

Bill
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My understanding is that a good sheep can hear a zipper some 50 yards out.


I have no experience with them but have heard those same sheep are real nervous around lonely guys wearing velcro gloves.
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BackCountryBoyScout wrote:Mr. Gump, keep in mind, I'm not advocating kissing their ass, I'm saying "I broke your precious FAR's, I bent a plane, I've still got my ticket and as soon as your back is turned, I'm going to flip you a big ol' b-52...!


Oh, I know quite well, and the vast, vast majority of my flying has been under Part 135. That's a whole diffrent mind-set, and whole different attitude. As it should be. I have no right to risk innocent folks as passengers, and there's a reason for that part of aviation to be very black and white. I take great pride in my professionalism as a pilot, and skill level, and had good working relationships with all the Feds I worked with up north.

Part 91 on the other hand... That's me. By myself, or with co-conspirators. Different rules and different attitude.

School bus driver with a load of kids, or a guy by himself racing across the desert. Apples and oranges.

Gump
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onthegas wrote:Hey, didn't you and your brother kill your parents? I thought you were in prison and now I find out you're a 777 jockey that almost goes over flight time and duty time?!?!? What's the world coming to? :lol:


I'm innocent, it was my brother Lyle who did it! :shock:
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Gump,
believe it or not, we are more alike than you might think. I guess I don't want to play the part of the kid that dares the other kid to stick his tongue to the cold flagpole and run away laughing when he does. I know you don't either, I'm not saying you do. I think you believe he should be able to take care of himself. I am not trying to speak for you, I am just trying to get you to see my position.
We may be closing in on the end of our aviating careers, but others on this site are beginning theirs. There is a time, place and manner of doing most anything, you and I know that, others might not, yet. I've said that my opinion is that as long as your actions don't affect others, then I believe you should be allowed to do as you please. Unfortunately my opinions don't mean squat :wink:
Backcountryboyscout has some excellent points.
When I was a kid my Great Grandmother used to comment that this wasn't her world anymore. As I age, I begin to understand what she meant.
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Sorry to get sidetracked about the sheep. I guess I'd rather be accused of violating a sheep (sheeps?) then getting violated by the fed (feds?).
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bumper wrote:
dlhanst wrote:Gump,
That's why we live in Nevada. Just desert and some sheep (oops).


My understanding is that a good sheep can hear a zipper some 50 yards out. :shock:



Damn!! So that's why I don't get lucky :shock: . Oh wait........ #-o
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I grew into aviation....

....apprenticed to the "greatest generation." Men who were born during the depression: fought the big war. Men who flew the "hump": men who were dogfighting Messerschmits and Zero's, dropping bombs on Berlin and Tokyo, men who floated in the shark filled Pacific and cold Atlantic after Naval airbattle. Some sat out years as POWs....often their deeds were endured before they were even 21 years of age. After the war they came home and built a huge chunk of aviation as it has existed, as well as the great prosperity that our nation enjoyed during the 50s, 60's and 70's.

They were modest men who never considered themselves heros; despite drawers filled with air medals. I am 61 years old....most of them have passed from this life....but they were, are and will forever remain my heros.

I recognize several persons on the forum who appear to be cut from the same cloth. You are heros to me as well. We must continue to fight the good fight.

But the times.... they are "a-changin" the world of my heros both then and now is slipping from our grasp. I do not envy the world my grandchildren will inherit.

As someone here posted..."my great-grandmother thought her world had disappeared." My father said the same thing. Indeed it had...as is mine.

"Everyman outlives his time!" ..... quoting my best friend and fellow aviator...."Maddog" McAlee.

I gave him the name Maddog. It fits.....and he is one of my heros also.

Happy flying. "Don't ask....don't tell!"

Bob :)
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bumper wrote:
dlhanst wrote:Gump,
That's why we live in Nevada. Just desert and some sheep (oops).


My understanding is that a good sheep can hear a zipper some 50 yards out. :shock:


Friend of mine while traveling in Ireland with his sister walks past a heard of sheep and proceeds to unzip and zip his jacket.
Sister, "What are you doing?"
Friend, "seeing if it makes them nervous"
Sister, "That's si... they do look nervous."
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Very satisfying!
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Absolutely...it's so obvious the FAA's very first priority is SAFETY....that is as long as it doesn't interfere with their regs, bureaucracy, and ability to micro manage our flying activities.
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With enough practice, I could be a natural!

Okay, all you free spirits--here's my spin on the regulations:

All these regulations are, unfortunately, written in bent sheet metal, and in many cases, the blood of an aviator, and sometimes innocent passengers, who placed their trust in said aviator.

I'm no bigger fan of regulations or the FAA's somewhat selective enforcement of same than the rest of you.

The point is, however, the regulations are almost always (I'd bet there are a few exceptions, but not many) to protect us and our potential passengers from the totally dumb stuff we as pilots do on a rather regular basis.

Now, before someone rips me a new one, I'll be the first to admit I've done some dumb stuff in an airplane, but as best I can tell, I've not yet precipitated any regulatory action me own self.

As Pogo so perceptively noted: "We have met the enemy and he is us".

Unfortunately, the NTSB goes a little overboard sometimes on their recommendations after an accident, and frankly, the FAA generally seriously tones down the recommendations of the NTSB, thankfully. If not for the FAA moderating these recommendations, I assure you the regs would really strangle us pilots.

Again, I'm not a big fan of the regulations governing flying in this country, but I do understand where they came from.

Gump--I would argue that your assertion that FAR 135 is somehow different than part 91 operations, and therefore 91 operations should be much free-er of regulations is essentially wrong.

As a 91 pilot, you or I (well okay--somebody with mucho cash anyway) can get in a Cessna Caravan, load up 9 or so of our neighbors and go fly into the Utah backcountry on a screaming hot day, late in the afternoon, and try to land on a short strip. The only difference is under 91, we'd be killing them for free, whereas under 135, they pay to get killed.

Now, you can go fly yourself around, and therefore risk only yourself (assuming you don't crash on top of a house, etc), but that is a matter of choice. You could also choose to fly a full load of passengers everywhere you fly.

THAT is a great priviledge, and flying is, whether we like it or not, a priviledge, not a God given right. We have to earn that priviledge by demonstrating our skills and knowledge (including of the regs-remember?), and that priviledge can be taken away if in the opinion of the FAA and NTSB we demonstrated deficient skills, knowledge or judgement.

Anyway, for perspective, visit with any pilot from Europe about regulations.

The regulations are there to protect us from ourselves. There is no doubt that many of these regulations are totally unecessary for proficient pilots, and/or for pilots who are also good mechanics. But, the regulations are written for everyone, including the nutball who does incredibly stupid stuff, and unfortunately, there are a few of those out there.

Okay--fire at will 8-[ .... :lol:

MTV
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mtv wrote:Gump--I would argue that your assertion that FAR 135 is somehow different than part 91 operations, and therefore 91 operations should be much free-er of regulations is essentially wrong.

As a 91 pilot, you or I (well okay--somebody with mucho cash anyway) can get in a Cessna Caravan, load up 9 or so of our neighbors and go fly into the Utah backcountry on a screaming hot day, late in the afternoon, and try to land on a short strip. The only difference is under 91, we'd be killing them for free, whereas under 135, they pay to get killed.


I look at same as I do the school bus analogy. Would you want your own personal passenger vehicles and driver's license regulated the same as commercial vehicles and operators? Same mechanical inspections, log books, weight stations, etc, etc, etc... Not me. Be like Russia or Nazi Germany as you drove down the road. And I view my airplane the same way. Fly for hire is one thing, but personal transportation is different.

The guy who gets whacked on a hot day is stupid, and all the rules in the world won't make him un-stupid. There's always gonna be dumb pilots out there, both in the private and commercial sector.

Gump
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