Grassstrippilot wrote:

what if the antenna is damaged in the crash?

Then there is the question of whether or not the unit will acquire a signal while inside of an aircraft.

Good questions with no clear answers, as least AFAIK. The antenna is like a piece of metal strapping and is really tough. I doubt it will break. The attachment to the unit itself looks pretty robust, but I haven't taken it apart (and don't intend to). I'm more concerned about being sliced by the antenna with it extended while the unit is hanging on a lanyard around my neck. Ouch.

Even if the gps can't get a fix for whatever reason, there's a chance that the 406 transmitter will ping a satellite. It's not as good as having the gps fix, but it's still a lot better than 121.5.

So I guess the tradeoff is protecting the antenna so that you can extend it after the crash vs. risking the antenna in the event that you're knocked out and unable to deploy it after the crash and fate nonetheless allows the unit to see a satellite. All I can say for sure is that I hope never to learn the answer to this one.

CAVU

Has anyone hear what his intended destination was ?!?

Here is the current search area...


There are reports of some sightings along the Walker River but nothing confirmed. The CAP is using "ARCHER" a system to detect shapes on the ground that don't fit the terrain and can be preprogrammed with the shapes associated with a specific aircraft.

Maybe they should check Coyote Flats (10k elevation) BTDT...

I don't know how it works, but there is a cable that will interface my aerofix with an airframe GPS so it always knows it's position and will xmit that at first power on. I assume since the aerofix is old that the new ones will too. I didn't buy the cable.

Search area expanded to 10,000 square miles from 600. Search could take weeks.

Listen to the report from the CAP officer in charge of the search here.

In the podcast the CAP officer states she doesn't know if the Decathlon had a 121.5 or 406 mhz elt... Now I know the search planes listen on both freq.s but how hard would it be to walk over to the Hilton hangar and ask to see the a/c logs? Also she stated they aren't sure how old the elt batteries might be. Again, check the logs ? Am I missing something here or ??? I have lotza' radio gear (ham radio operator etc.) and can monitor any number of frequencies and am theoritically in the search area, it would be nice to know where to listen...

jmtgt wrote:From Reno KOLOTV Channel 8, "On Friday, 26 airplanes and helicopters took off from the official search headquarters at the Minden airport.

Most of the planes are small aircraft flown by members of the Nevada, California and Utah Civil Air Patrols and contain a pilot and two spotters."

Yikes, they're going to need to provide atc services to keep them all seperated. Better get some fuel trucks headed towards Northern Nv. also. The fact they haven't found anything yet indicates how tough (as well as large) the terrain is. Remember the Doctor and his daughter they searched for a couple of years ago. Backpacker finally found their cub.
If Mr. Fossett had been on one of the lake beds or the playa, he would likely have been spotted already. If he went down in the mountains/trees it could be awhile before they locate him. I wonder how long they'll continue to search with the amount of resources they're using now?

N6EA wrote:If he went down in the mountains/trees it could be awhile before they locate him. I wonder how long they'll continue to search with the amount of resources they're using now?

Yeah. The fact that they've found six other uncharted wrecks during this search tells you something. And it could be a long, long time before anything turns up--for example: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001218X45447&ntsbno=LAX94LA336&akey=1.

CAVU

On the subject of ELT's.....seriously...how can you download the ELT warble and put it into your cell phone for a ringtone??? I'd probably hear my phone ringing better......

I was through that SW Nevada countryside in June and it's a huge expanse of nothing, interspersed with some REALLY cool places !! But look how long it took them to find that Lear jet near Lebanon NH a few years ago......actually...I don't know for sure if they ever did find it.....a crashed plane doesn't look like a plane so it really is hard to see......

Great, now a TFR thanks to a bonehead

Fossett ‘Freelancers’ Spark TFR

The FAA has imposed a temporary flight restriction over the area being searched for Steve Fossett after a the pilot of a privately owned aircraft not formally engaged in the search began an impromptu sweep of the area on Friday. According to an Associated Press report, the pilot was contacted (by radio, we assume) and told whoever contacted him that he was trying to claim a $10,000 reward offered on the social networking Web site YouChoose.net for information leading to the discovery of Fossett. However, getting some stick time over the Nevada wilderness wasn’t what YouChoose.net had in mind, nor did it please searchers. [more] "This freelance searching is not only dangerous, but will potentially result in the delay or cancellation of all air search missions for Mr. Fossett," search organizers said in a written statement The Web site is indeed offering a $10,000 reward but it’s asking people to use their computers to access satellite imagery to help in the search, just like AVweb has been asking for a week now. And, like AVweb readers, YouChoose.net participants are finding things they think should be investigated. In the meantime, hope has faded that Fossett will be found alive, although the official word from the search coordinators is that this is still a “rescue” mission.

My experience with CAP searches in this type terrain is that it may be best to get CAP out of the search area, and allow people with actual knowledge of the country do the searching.

I have been part of two searches where CAP threatened everyone with everything to keep us out. Unfortunately, now, they have the ability to cause implementation of a TFR to effectively keep others out of a search area.

If that had happened in the two searches I noted, we would probably never have found the subjects of the search. In those searches, CAP had searched intensively for a week. Once family and friends organized to initiate their own search, the aircraft were found in one day of searching.

As to the CAP "Major's" comments regarding the ELT--CAP "officers" are often (certainly not always, but often) totally clueless on matters regarding aircraft.

There is no doubt that there are competent CAP detachments, but many of them are pretty useless, and they all absorb a LOT of government funds. I for one would prefer that the federal government provide that funding to the respective states and allow them to apply it to this purpose.

I sincerely hope that they find Fossett soon, but frankly, offers of monetary remuneration in ANY form in a case like this is a really bad idea, in my opinion. It just draws out the nutballs, and also gives CAP the ability to suggest that the only reason everyone but THEM are out there is simply for the bucks, when in fact, I know of several very sincere and competent people who have been searching all along. Unfortunately, those folks will now likely be shut out of the airspace. That's too bad, in my opinion.

Okay, I'm battened down here, so all you CAP fans out there can blast away. I have been left out to freeze at -45 by CAP bungling, and I want no part of their "searches".

I'll try to get lost in a state that has its own air search capability, thank you. But, that's just me.

Rant over.... .

MTV

I agree 100% that the CAP is another attempt of the Government that is as poorly managed as the post office. The CAP searches in Alaska were for the most part useless. Now the Gov wants to be in charge of your health care.

I guess I think CAP is better than nothing, and I would appreciate their help if I am lost. If the locals are so good, they should have found him in the 2 weeks that has elapsed before the TFR came on.

MTV--tell us more of this -45 ordeal. Were you a target in a practice, or how did you end up there in the first place?

I know the CAP isn't perfect, but if you want to know the outcome and timeline of a search and rescue(recovery) your best bet is to not get lost.

I am in the process of joining CAP, and with my 3 months experience, it seems to be a typical government effort with predictable results.

Just my .02, what do I know, I am just a farmer from the flatlands!

I don't think it's fair to compare the CAP to the post office...the post office generally gets the job done.

OK, that's not fare...I don't have anything against the CAP. I tried to join once, but after sitting through two infuriating meetings, one of which was devoted to discussing the button changes on a uniform which no one attending the meeting would ever wear, I gave up. The phrase "all hat and no cattle" comes to mind.

I understand the political reality of why the search for Fossett is infinitely more intensive than a search for any one of us would be, but I think the powers that be are making a huge mistake by drawing attention to the effort, and an even bigger mistake by imposing a TFR. They are looking for a corpse, albeit a rich and famous one. That doesn't justify restricting the rights of other aviators.

Great, now a TFR thanks to a bonehead

Oh ya, I couldn't figure out if the bonehead was the private search pilot, or Fossett...

I think it was inevitable for somebody to interfere with the CAP's search at some point.

From my experience of flying in and over a lot of the search area for the past 25 years, they have probably eliminated 90% of the search area where the plane might out in the open and visible (open desert, above the tree line, etc.). That probably accounts for 25% of the total area of this "high desert". Unfortunately for Mr. Fossett it looks like he probably went down where he is not very visible and as MTV says, without the locals that are intimate with this area, chance of somebody from outside the area being able to really get into some of the deep canyons is not likely, except by slow and methodical helo search which could take months. I doubt they'll keep the resources committed for very long for that type of search.

In the mean time we're stuck with this TFR and CAP.

we don't hear anything any more about this here in SD. You know our media has bigger fish to fry. THe last I heard was they were going to search a lake. Was that accomplished and to what end.

The search of the lake was negative. They have been following up on the google / amazon hits as well as a couple of questionable sightings/stories of a plane flying up a canyon and not coming out and another of a plane flying out of sight and an explosion, neither of which has panned out, yet.

It might be interesting to see what the family decides to do once the CAP pulls the plug. With the Fossett family, Richard Branson and the Hilton's, there are considerable resources that might continue the search for quite awhile.

Lance,

Sorry again for the rant. I shouldn't get started on CAP.

I broke a gear leg on skis on a lake southwest of FAI. My fault, nobody else's, period. It was cold and getting colder. I turned on the ELT manually, and waited while setting up camp--a one man shelter.

CAP showed up in a C-185 on wheel skis, following my ELT and overdue flight plan. I got on the radio and talked to them. They asked if I could survive the night there. I said, "of course I can, or I wouldn't be here in the first place". They said they were RTB. I asked if they'd land (mind you, this was a HUGE frozen lake, with lots of places to land) and pick me up. Answer: "Nope, we're not allowed to land on skis." Now, why they drag around those $16,000 wheel skis is quite beyond me if they're not actually permitted to use them, but all the CAP airplanes in AK seem to have lots of "accessories".

They then asked if I wanted any messages passed along to anyone. I told them to call my mechanic and ask him to prepare to assist with the ferry flight once I got back to town. They said fine.

Next day, my mechanic shows up with another of his customers in the customers plane (mechanic wasn't a pilot then). I said "what's up, and why are you here?" His reply: CAP called him last night and told him I would need help fixing the plane.

Then CAP cancelled the search and my flight plan.

Fortunately, the mechanic followed up by calling FSS and the Troopers, and getting my location, and then, all on his own, recruited one of his customers to come help get me and the plane home. CAP just cancelled: Mission accomplished, let's go drink a beer.

It hit -45 that night.

I didn't mind them leaving me for the night-I was fully prepared to spend several nights there, and I was at worst inconvenienced.

I DID mind them cancelling the search and telling the Troopers I'd been found and was fine, especially after telling me to turn off my ELT.

Sorry again, but I've heard and seen too many CAP stories like this to have any use for the outfit.

MTV