I'm sure this has trickled thru most of the NW flyers already but I hadn't seen anything so thought I would post.

http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/w ... h/31457488

Sunday a Piper Malibu departed KSFF (Felts Field in Spokane) and lost power shortly after takeoff. All initial reports point towards the plane being filled with Jet-A. I'm sure we are all guilty at some point of having a plane filled up by someone else while flight planning, grabbing a coffee, or anything else that leaves the plane unsupervised while being filled.

For my own knowledge would a sump job or a dip of the tanks have caught this? I'm assuming at 6.7 ish density, Jet A would settle to the bottom of the tank if there was still 100LL in there. The pilot had just flown down from someplace in Canada so I'm sure it took a good amount to fill it back up. I know the later models of the Malibu were turbines. Honest mistake by someone I'm sure but unfortunately mistakes are so unforgiving in Aviation.

Should have seen some wicked egt readings, assuming it was jet.

It was a Piston Malibu that looks like it was filled with Jet-A.....

If it was jet fuel, my immediate question was: Did he put it in himself at the self-serve or did someone else pump the fuel?

I have seen that before.

flyer

I'm surprised that they got the nozzle in the filler hole. Every Jet A pump I ever used had the bell shaped nozzle which wouldn't fit into a gas tank.

akaviator wrote:I'm surprised that they got the nozzle in the filler hole. Every Jet A pump I ever used had the bell shaped nozzle which wouldn't fit into a gas tank.

Exactly.....this was done specifically to prevent this sort of thing. I doubt you'd be able to detect this easily by dumping your tanks, but maybe. Best clue would be the "smell test".

There'll likely be some lawsuits on this one. Price of gas going up.

Terrible deal, however it happened.

MTV

Rocket Engineering( I think is the name) does conversions of these and other planes to turbines on Felts, Probably the only AV-Gas powered one to show up for fuel, Have heard the line guy undergoing counseling and on Suicide watch??
Terrible Deal!!,
Prayers to his family,
He picked a spot between 2 of the busiest streets in town where he crashed!!
He passed away last night.

It's sometimes hard to tell the difference in smell if you've been around it all day. Nasal fatigue I think it's called.

Horrible accident.

Every Jet A pump I ever used had the bell shaped nozzle which wouldn't fit into a gas tank.

Not so much!

On the way back from Oshkosh I pulled up to the pumps and actually had the nozzle in my filler before it dawned on me that it was Kerosene.

Could have been me like the Malibu.

TD

You're referring to the Hoover nozzle. It came into being after Bob Hoover's Shrike was misfueled with Jet-A, causing both of his engines to belly up, and he crash-landed and was injured. Unfortunately, although I think it's required on all new installations, it's not a requirement for retrofitting, either on fuelers or on aircraft. In any event, there are a lot of ordinary nozzles on Jet-A installations around the country, and therefore a lot of aircraft which could be easily misfueled.

All that emphasizes why we as pilots have the responsibility to make sure our airplanes are properly fueled. I don't know how to do that except by either doing it myself or standing watching the rampies do it.

Cary

Cary wrote:
All that emphasizes why we as pilots have the responsibility to make sure our airplanes are properly fueled. I don't know how to do that except by either doing it myself or standing watching the rampies do it.

Cary

I certainly agree with this! Last summer, I took my friend over to KPAE in Seattle in the 185 for the Boeing Tour, Seattle Museum of Flight Restoration Center and Paul Allen's Flying Heritage Collection. We got topped off before heading back to Sandpoint. When I was doing my walk around, I found one of the fuel caps cocked at a weird angle - improperly installed! I brought the ramper back out and showed them how to do it properly and explained why it was important to get it right. They were really surprised to find out that fuel could siphon out in flight!

That has to be the best aviation accident report from non-aviation media i've ever seen!
Condolences to the family.

I found one of the fuel caps cocked at a weird angle - improperly installed! I brought the ramper back out and showed them how to do it properly and explained why it was important to get it right. They were really surprised to find out that fuel could siphon out in flight!

You have to be paranoid about fueling, right type and caps. Might be a pain, but stick around for fueling if not self-serve, and ALWAYS climb up and check caps yourself.

A buddy and I were ferrying a C185 from CA to AK and we stopped at Bellingham WA for our last "cheap" gas of the trip. I was in the office talking to FSS while buddy stuck with the airplane to get fueled up. Got all the chores done, fired up, took off and headed north. As we were leaving the pattern I just happened to look back towards the tail of the airplane and saw a mist trailing back. We circled around right back to the airport and landed.

One of the fuel caps was dangling by the chain. The line boy said, "I thought you guys were going to check it so I didn't put it on tight." My buddy was, "I thought he put it on." That five minutes in the air cost us 40 gallons of gas. Never again.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:

I found one of the fuel caps cocked at a weird angle - improperly installed! I brought the ramper back out and showed them how to do it properly and explained why it was important to get it right. They were really surprised to find out that fuel could siphon out in flight!

You have to be paranoid about fueling, right type and caps. Might be a pain, but stick around for fueling if not self-serve, and ALWAYS climb up and check caps yourself.

A buddy and I were ferrying a C185 from CA to AK and we stopped at Bellingham WA for our last "cheap" gas of the trip. I was in the office talking to FSS while buddy stuck with the airplane to get fueled up. Got all the chores done, fired up, took off and headed north. As we were leaving the pattern I just happened to look back towards the tail of the airplane and saw a mist trailing back. We circled around right back to the airport and landed.

One of the fuel caps was dangling by the chain. The line boy said, "I thought you guys were going to check it so I didn't put it on tight." My buddy was, "I thought he put it on." That five minutes in the air cost us 40 gallons of gas. Never again.

Gump

The line boy said, "I thought you guys were going to check it so I didn't put it on tight.".... That would be like a tire shop hand tightening the lug nuts on your wheels and saying, "i thought you would check it so we didn't tighten them down.". There's one thing that I've learned in my life and that is, people are lazy...

TxKiger wrote:

GumpAir wrote:

I found one of the fuel caps cocked at a weird angle - improperly installed! I brought the ramper back out and showed them how to do it properly and explained why it was important to get it right. They were really surprised to find out that fuel could siphon out in flight!

You have to be paranoid about fueling, right type and caps. Might be a pain, but stick around for fueling if not self-serve, and ALWAYS climb up and check caps yourself.

A buddy and I were ferrying a C185 from CA to AK and we stopped at Bellingham WA for our last "cheap" gas of the trip. I was in the office talking to FSS while buddy stuck with the airplane to get fueled up. Got all the chores done, fired up, took off and headed north. As we were leaving the pattern I just happened to look back towards the tail of the airplane and saw a mist trailing back. We circled around right back to the airport and landed.

One of the fuel caps was dangling by the chain. The line boy said, "I thought you guys were going to check it so I didn't put it on tight." My buddy was, "I thought he put it on." That five minutes in the air cost us 40 gallons of gas. Never again.

Gump

The line boy said, "I thought you guys were going to check it so I didn't put it on tight.".... That would be like a tire shop hand tightening the lug nuts on your wheels and saying, "i thought you would check it so we didn't tighten them down.". There's one thing that I've learned in my life and that is, people are lazy...

I had a similar experience a couple years ago at KDBQ on my return from OSH. The line girl at least said something about it: "Your fuel caps are sure tight--I had trouble with them." I had watched her fuel but I hadn't checked to see if she had put the caps on tight--I sometimes climb up there right away to check them, but more typically I check them during post-fueling preflight by standing behind the wing, as I can easily see if the caps have been properly reinstalled. When I went back out to the airplane, they were both still turned sideways, barely on. I had to go get the ladder off the fuel truck to get up there to turn them.

But still, it's the pilot's ultimate responsibility to make sure that all of the fueling process is done correctly--part of being PIC. Only a fool would bounce that responsibility to a poorly paid, likely poorly trained, ramp rabbit. Yeah, they should do their jobs to the best of their ability, but it's the pilot's butt in a sling if they don't, not theirs. As for tire shops, nah--I think they have a responsibility to tighten lug nuts.

Cary

I spent part of a couple summers fueling everything from single-point G5's and Citation X and CG Jayhawks to to old Lear's that have to be filled a little here and a little there to Cubs. I handed every one of them the hose. In fact the CG guys just take care of it as soon as the truck pulled up. I just told them I don't do this as a full time job and don't want to F it up. Never had any serious protest. By the way, it is funny to watch the copilot dump the lav into a 5 gallon bucket with his tie tucked in. I refused that duty.

Hey,

Ramp rats have no exclusive on that sort of thing. I once fueled a Husky on floats from a five gallon can I had stashed at a lake. The fuel caps didn't have a chain to attach, so I always put the cap in the pocket of my flight suit while fueling.

My passenger asked me something about the time I finished pouring the gas in, and I handed him the gas can.

Took off, and, just like Gump, I turned around after a minute and looked back to see a mist coming off the left wing.......Landed and put the cap on, and hadn't lost much gas so went home.

It can happen to anyone, fueler or pilot

mtv wrote:...Took off, and, just like Gump, I turned around after a minute and looked back to see a mist coming off the left wing.......

I had a scare just like that one time. I circled back to land and discovered that the Madras droop tip on one side had a plugged drain hole. It was full of rain water and that was the source of the mist!
-DP

p.s. When I saw this thread title, my first thought was that we're getting near spring thaw, and any water that's been frozen in the tanks all winter is now liquid again. Good time to rock the wings and sump the system thoroughly.

AvidFlyer wrote:For my own knowledge would a sump job or a dip of the tanks have caught this? I'm assuming at 6.7 ish density, Jet A would settle to the bottom of the tank if there was still 100LL in there.

AVGAS is about 0.72 kg/L and JET is about 0.82 kg/L, so yes it would sink to the bottom.
Nasty-smelling oily stuff that it is, there's some chance you'd spot it.

Order of density:

Water
Clear
(1) liter = (1) kilo

Jet A
Straw-colored
Density 0.81 kg/L

Avgas
100LL blue
MoGas red
0.71–0.77 kg/L

Ethanol
Clear
0.75 kg/L