CamTom12 wrote:

mtv wrote:Trust but verify....
MTV

x2. Great story!

Yeah Ted, that was my first attempt at my flight South. Didn't look so bad in the Fairbanks area but got progressively worse. By the time I got near Salcha I was ready to be back in Fairbanks on the ground so I turned around and got an SVFR back into the Class D to land.

Very good story about the weather observation/forecast errors we all see flying. But, extremely hostile environment Mike. Compared to Honolulu!

Cameron, I remember the trip. Good you were dynamic and didn’t have any issues using a plan “ B”.

Thank you guys. This thread brought up very good scenarios for learning.

Remember a SVFR is only available at Class C, D or E surface areas. Never in class G and I'm not aware of any class B's that allow it. The clearance is only valid within the surface area, generally 5 miles, once you get outside that you must meet VFR mins for that airspace. All surface areas have an official weather station and that's what counts. It needs to be reporting a mile or more. What you get for vis in the air is irrelevant for take off or landing.

Bonanza Man wrote:Remember a SVFR is only available at Class C, D or E surface areas. Never in class G and I'm not aware of any class B's that allow it. The clearance is only valid within the surface area, generally 5 miles, once you get outside that you must meet VFR mins for that airspace. All surface areas have an official weather station and that's what counts. It needs to be reporting a mile or more. What you get for vis in the air is irrelevant for take off or landing.

Thank you for the good summary. If I may add, helicopters don’t require the (1) statute mile visibility. A pretty loose rule for helicopters.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.157

Interesting stuff. I’ve gotten a special a couple times to get out of D airspace but never thought about it for an uncontrolled field. I guess I’ve always figured if the AWOS is reporting something different than what my own judgment tells me then I go with my judgment.

Example: My ppl check ride. After the oral option it was time to go flying. The day has started out nice but some fog had moved in from the west. Half the runway was obscured in the fog along with the ATIS station. Wind was calm and it was CAVU to the east. The examiner asked if I was comfortable only having half the runway, which I was, so off we went.

I’ve been in several other situations where the weather was obviously VFR but the station was reporting otherwise.

whee wrote:Interesting stuff. I’ve gotten a special a couple times to get out of D airspace but never thought about it for an uncontrolled field. I guess I’ve always figured if the AWOS is reporting something different than what my own judgment tells me then I go with my judgment.

Example: My ppl check ride. After the oral option it was time to go flying. The day has started out nice but some fog had moved in from the west. Half the runway was obscured in the fog along with the ATIS station. Wind was calm and it was CAVU to the east. The examiner asked if I was comfortable only having half the runway, which I was, so off we went.

I’ve been in several other situations where the weather was obviously VFR but the station was reporting otherwise.

I've had similar. But it was at a strip with an advisory tower. Even tough 80% of the strip including the terminal building and tower were sunny and clear, there was fog over the end where their weather station was. No departures as it was classified IFR. No SVFRs given.

All this talk of SVFR is giving me flashbacks of my air taxi days in Southwest Ak when multiple planes from multiple directions are trying to get clearance into the zone. Wasn’t TO bad if you could get a visual with the preceding plane and come in together. Throw a Grumman Goose in the mix and sometimes it got interesting. Many years ago a FSS guy in DLG named Newton was a drinking buddy of most of us 135 pilots. He had a separate radio to call us on our discrete freq and tell us what it really was like and how soon he was going to shut it all down. He never left anybody hanging so to speak. Bethel was pretty wild on a busy SVFR day.

whee,

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but no SVFR needed nor given at uncontrolled airports in U.S.for Part 91 operations. IFR can be filed by phone but there will be a time limit for getting up and in contact with ATC on the radio.

This could be out of date.

Contactflying, I think you're wrong about that. An uncontrolled airport where the class E comes down to the ground is a candidate for getting a special VFR clearance to let you fly in or out when it's below 1000/3 but you can maintain 1mi and clear of clouds. I don't think part 91 or 135 makes any difference except that 135 requires at least 500/2.

Where I've used SVFR the most was at Ketchikan where I was usually part 91 if I was flying in weather that low but the 135 guys used it regularly too.

dabridgham wrote:Contactflying, I think you're wrong about that. An uncontrolled airport where the class E comes down to the ground is a candidate for getting a special VFR clearance to let you fly in or out when it's below 1000/3 but you can maintain 1mi and clear of clouds. I don't think part 91 or 135 makes any difference except that 135 requires at least 500/2.

Where I've used SVFR the most was at Ketchikan where I was usually part 91 if I was flying in weather that low but the 135 guys used it regularly too.

Class E airspace IS controlled airspace, by definition. Therefore, an airport that lies within a Class E surface area requires a SVFR clearance to depart/enter when weather is below VFR.

There were a lot of pilots didn’t understand that back when Class E surface areas were first created. I damn near got run over by a DC-4 air tanker at Fort Yukon who wasn’t even on the CTAF OR the FSS frequency, and departing in a mile and a half vis.

And, yes, Bethel was a VERY special place to get in and out of when weather was down.....”Flight of seven holding southwest, requesting special VFR into Bethel.”... First time I heard that, I had to recalibrate my brain.

And then there was the good friend Tower Controller in Kodiak who decided to let me in by not updating the ATIS right away........we had a chat on the phone that evening......”dont do me any favors, please”.

MTV

Bonanza Man wrote:Remember a SVFR is only available at Class C, D or E surface areas. Never in class G and I'm not aware of any class B's that allow it. The clearance is only valid within the surface area, generally 5 miles, once you get outside that you must meet VFR mins for that airspace. All surface areas have an official weather station and that's what counts. It needs to be reporting a mile or more. What you get for vis in the air is irrelevant for take off or landing.

Just a note to say...the class G ceiling and visibility requirements are the same as the special VFR requirements, so the necessity for a special procedure wouldn't exist for class G areas anyway.

Ok my co-pilots.... Time for a pop up quiz!

Scenario: The entire area weather is 900’ overcast visibility 7 statue miles. The calendar date is the Summer solstice of the year 2020. Sun is 6 degrees above the horizon and Local time is 20:30 PDT.

How many airports on the below aeronautical chart require an SVFR for a Cessna 182 (VFR day/night equipped)? General direction is Southbound on the beach at 400’ MSL to take a few pictures.

Please choose (A), (B), (C) or (E) only and provide an explanation with your answer.

A) All airports including the helicopter pad

B) (2) of (4) aerodromes shown

C) Only (1) airport which has Class E surface area and AWOS

E) None of the above

C. Is the answer. Astoria is Class E to surface. Helo bade is excluded from that surf save area. Every other drone lies outside controlled airspace.

The overcast predicated below basic VFR.
MTV

mtv wrote:C. Is the answer. Astoria is Class E to surface. Helo bade is excluded from that surf save area. Every other drone lies outside controlled airspace.

The overcast predicated below basic VFR.
MTV

Very good!

mtv wrote:
Class E airspace IS controlled airspace, by definition. Therefore, an airport that lies within a Class E surface area requires a SVFR clearance to depart/enter when weather is below VFR.
MTV

Right. Controlled airspace but still an uncontrolled airport. Checking back now to see if I mis-read what I was replying to ... nope, it was about uncontrolled airports.

Southbound along beach at 400'?
<buzzer>
Out of compliance with recommended minimum altitude of 2000' over Nat'l Wildlife Refuge just south of Seaside.
Subject to being reported by birders & wildlife officers, 2" tail numbers & radio silence recommended.

hotrod180 wrote:Southbound along beach at 400'?
<buzzer>
Out of compliance with recommended minimum altitude of 2000' over Nat'l Wildlife Refuge just south of Seaside.
Subject to being reported by birders & wildlife officers, 2" tail numbers & radio silence recommended.

The refuge is small enough to avoid either offshore or inland? But, yes be careful of the area!