Hey, how yall are?

I just want to get some opinions from you experienced guys (and gals) on the article in the link below.
http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleTailwheelTraining.html
Anything you would add to it? Especially about the landings. Anyone get signed off recently and can you tell us how the first hour went? Nervous, scary, etc? I've never been in a conventional gear airplane so I don't know nuthin' about it except for what I've read.

Fisherman~nice article, thanks for sharing. With a good TW instructor I believe that your first few hours should be anything but scary. Your article hit the major points but I would add that the adage, "you never stop flying a taildragger until it is tied down" is true. Once all of the wheels are on deck, you're not done being vigilant on the controls and aware of where the plane is going. In my mind I've always compared it riding a horse well-you either make sure the horse knows you're the one driving or the horse ends up leading you where it wants to go. The only other item I would mention is to make sure you have access to a grass strip-much more forgiving.

Best,
Lefty

Well just about six months ago I went to Charolette, NC and got my tailwheel endorsement. I probably have about 7 hours in a Citabria and 1 hour in a Super Cub we borrowed.

Although my logbook indicates I have been "endorsed" I am not a tailwheel pilot and am a long ways from venturing out on my own. I am not even sure why I spent the rather large some of money to get my endorsement. I will tell you I had a blast and loved the Citabria. I can't justify the cost of a tailwheel airplane nor the extra insurance. So why do I find myself venturing into trade-a-plane and barnstormers looking at the Skywagons as if they were centerfolds?? Hmm..... Why did I call my insurance agent and get a price and dual requirements for a 180 and a Husky? Again, hmmmm.... I am grateful and love my nosedragger, but I do feel myself being drawn to a tailwheel airplane as if I was some kind of recovering addict. Enjoy

Thanks for the replies. You're right about letting the horse know that you're boss. My neighbor has a pinto that will throw an inexperienced rider. He'll move forward, bow and jump back and if you're not ready, over you go. LOL

From the descriptions I've read, ground handling in a tailwheel is sort of like pushing a shopping cart backwards. Not that hard if you do it right but you can sure knock over a lot of canned goods if you aren't paying attention.

There is nothing unnatural about flying a tailwheel airplane. However, I heard an analogy once: If flying a trike is like riding a bicycle then flying a tail dragger is like riding a unicycle. I don't neccesarily believe it though.

I have never thought of flying a conventional gear plane as anything other than a little different. One difference is that Many tricycle gear planes have interconnections between aeleron and rudder. That is: if you bank the plane, a little rudder is added even if you don't actively depress the rudder. The Piper Cherokee has this kind of rigging as does the Commanche. Tripacers have this too and it is usually disconnected when they are converted to Pacers (PA22/20) with tailwheels.

Most tailwheel planes have completely separate control inputs and you might notice that turns need to be coordinated a little more. Ground handling is no harder as long as you understand the dynamics. Also: the distance between the main gear and the tailwheel and the width of the main gear on varying types of tail wheeled planes affects their ground hanling manners. Generally; the longer and wider the better.

Now this has got me thinking. I have a C172 that has been converted to a taildragger. Anyone know whether the cessna trikes and cessna tailwheel airplanes (170, 180 185) have interconnections between aeleron and rudder?

obxbushpilot wrote:Many tricycle gear planes have interconnections between aeleron and rudder. That is: if you bank the plane, a little rudder is added even if you don't actively depress the rudder. The Piper Cherokee has this kind of rigging as does the Commanche. Tripacers have this too and it is usually disconnected when they are converted to Pacers (PA22/20) with tailwheels...
Now this has got me thinking. I have a C172 that has been converted to a taildragger. Anyone know whether the cessna trikes and cessna tailwheel airplanes (170, 180 185) have interconnections between aeleron and rudder?

Never heard of this with regard to my 170. Sounds like it would make it hard to slip.

-DP

I don't know if the 172 is connected like that but I did slips in it all the time. If it was interconnected, wouldn't I notice it?

The only airplane that I'm aware of with an interconnection between the rudder and ailerons is Maule. I own a 1986 Maule MX-7-180 taildragger that has a rudder servo connected to the ailerons. The 1985 Cessna 185F taildragger that I fly at work doesn't have it, nor did the Cessna 180 that I flew a few years ago.

Oxbushpilot wrote:

One difference is that Many tricycle gear planes have interconnections between aeleron and rudder. That is: if you bank the plane, a little rudder is added even if you don't actively depress the rudder. The Piper Cherokee has this kind of rigging as does the Commanche.

Are you sure you're not thinking of differiential rigged into the ailerons on the Cherokee. I learned to fly in a Cherokee and was part owner in one. I have never heard of nor detected any connection between the ailerons and rudder.

I'm no expert but it seems to me if there is a mechanical connection between the ailerons and rudder and that airplane has rudder pedals that the connection must be a spring or bungi so the pilot can overide it.

From the article:

Here's an interesting fact: back when we were working Champs right along side Cherokees, it took about eight hours to safely solo most students in either airplane. Today, to transition a medium-time pilot from nosewheel to tailwheel often takes almost the same number of hours because he has to learn the basics all over again.

I can relate to this. I soloed at 7 hours in the Cherokee. When I had accumulated 300 cherokee hours I took tail wheel lessons. It took me 14 hours of tail wheel instruction to satisfy the instructor to write an endorsement in my log book.

I've inspected and shot ACF-50 on every pulley in a Cessna control cable system, and there is no interconnection between aileron and rudder, at least not on the tailwheel Cessnas.

The V-tail Bonanza and PA22 that I flew had an interconnect, they were both a complete joy to fly. Makes coordinated turns nearly automatic.

The 1973 and newer C 180J and 180K and C A185F equipped with the factory float kit or ski kit have an interconnect between the aileron and rudder cables. It is located on the aft side of the station 65 bulkhead (rear door post) below the floor. Unless disconnected during a float to wheel change over at the operators choice it is approved to be retained while on wheels. These models are also required to have one of two types of rudder centering spring systems located on the inside of the upper skin of the aft fuselage. These may be removed when on wheels but are required for floats or skis as is the aileron rudder interconnect. I became well educated on this system when I tried to install a set of Fluidyne C3200 wheel skis on a 1973 A185F I owned with the belly center line photo port. The photo port required the rudder cables to be rerouted around each side in addition to rerouting the elevator and trim cables. This made the configuration of the rudder cables incompatible with the aileron rudder interconnect. Since the aileron rudder interconnect and rudder center springs are require by the ski installation drawings, I was unable to complete the installation. These are not required on the earlier model 180/185. Sorry for the long post.

Not that it makes any 'real' difference to me, since I won't be trading in my 182 for any 4+ place taildragger -due to the large insurance differential and I should be/need to be happy with what I have, but this has evolved into a very interesting/informative thread...
I did once have pretty serious dreams of my 182 on floats and a place on the lake, but the economy and such disassembled those dreams quite effectively....
My situation could always be a lot worse!

Anyhow, thanks for the thread information, guys!
lc


I should be, and am naturally quite happy/appreciative/grateful for what I have-but, on occasion, my eyes do wander.... {:-)

[quote="Fisherman"]...I just want to get some opinions from you experienced guys (and gals) on the article in the link below.
http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleTailwheelTraining.html
Anything you would add to it? .....[quote]

IMHO this is a pretty good article, but it's not a "how to" article-- just sort of an overview on what makes flying a taildragger different from a trike.
My t/w checkout 15 years ago was nerve-wracking, me & my (female) instructor joked about the airplane being a Cessna "one-sweaty" not a 170. She was there to save the day if things got too far out of hand, which they did a few times, but it was my job to fly the airplane properly & I took it seriously. After the insurance company's required 5 hours of dual, she felt OK to sign me off but warned me to avoid crosswinds etc until my skills developed a bit more. It is a "license to learn" after all. 15 years & about 2200 hours later, I think I'm finally getting the hang of it.
Unlike some people, I don't think it's really necesary to do your initial pilot training in a taildragger, even if you want to be end up a taildragger pilot. Like a friend of mine put it: "I got my licence in a 150, then I learned to fly in a Cub". There's enough stuff to learn while earning the private, ya don't really need to have to deal with all the finer points of flying a taildragger. But then the longer you fly a nosedragger after getting the ticket, usually the more bad (lazy) habits you have to unlearn. At least that's how it was with me.

andy wrote:The only airplane that I'm aware of with an interconnection between the rudder and ailerons is Maule.

Various models of the Cessna 210 have the interconnection as well as a couple of other aircraft models that I have flown. It's supposed to help with coordinated flight during turns for those with lazy feet, but in my opinion it is a crutch that promotes sloppy flying and does not do a very good job of keeping coordianted flight anyway.

Budd did a nice job with that article I thought. Just this week I had a father-daughter team at my place. They had never been in a taildragger and I let them "try" taxing my plane. Then I tried explaining how to do it and I realized I didn't know what I was doing, since it was all habit for me. I was trying to "think" as I flew after they left.

So Fisherman, that wasn't only a nice find, but a timely find. jg

I have a C172 that has been converted to a taildragger. Anyone know whether the cessna trikes and cessna tailwheel airplanes (170, 180 185) have interconnections between aeleron and rudder?

Not except as noted by others, some 185s and some 210s--no others that I know of.

Cary

All i can say is tailwheel flying rules!!!

Makes you taller, better looking, smarter and extends your member by 2"s

So really its a great bargin for the price

patrol guy wrote:Budd did a nice job with that article I thought. Just this week I had a father-daughter team at my place. They had never been in a taildragger and I let them "try" taxing my plane. Then I tried explaining how to do it and I realized I didn't know what I was doing, since it was all habit for me. I was trying to "think" as I flew after they left.

So Fisherman, that wasn't only a nice find, but a timely find. jg

Thanks. So, are you patrolling again? Got a pipeline patrol plane that flies directly over my house every day. Sometimes multiple passes just to tease me. LOL

I jsut got checked off a couple of weeks ago. I have 13 hours in t/w counting demo rides - exactly 10 hours dual to meet insurance requirements to solo, mostly in GCBC and GCAA Citabrias. I am still working off the first hour with only 1 solo flight since but have intentionally set my personal minimums to try and preclude crosswind situations and light winds for a while. The first 3/4 of an hour was uneventfull - a little nerve wracking - but in calm winds feel reasonably comfortable with soloing. My next flight is probably tomorrow. Crosswinds are another story - and will likely seek out more dual to try and improve without bending metal.

I read the compleat taildragger pilot (painful) and everything else on the inner toobs I could find and I watched delgazios dvd tailwheel 101 (good). I don't know that it helped - gotta get out and do it.

My wheel landings are better than my 3-point - it seemed more intuitive to me to fly it faster, see better and better rudder authority- make sure you train both. I have a long way to go and am by no means over confident - generally approaching things fairly slowly and conservatively.

I'm pretty sure the taildragger thing is for me. Shopping for planes now. Know anybody that has a C90 or O200 J3 or PA-11 for sale?

a friend in western PA has a real nice J-3 on Barnstormers now.

Fisherman - I still do minimal pipeline work (15% of what I use to do). Hey go tease that guy back. Park stuff on or near the ROW. Tractors, bulldozers, and backhoes will get his attention. Also campfires, building materials. Spray roundup on the grass in 10-15 ft circles to turn it brown, etc.

Another thing that always got a second or even third pass from me was good looking women sunbathing or swimming!