Looking for advise on amphibious floats for a 1969 Cessna 180
Plane will be getting either a 0-470-50 or 0-520 mounted up front.
Lookin for peoples experience with specific types of floats.
I understand the benefits of straight floats and weight savings that comes with them, but they are just not the right fit for me right now.
Thanks for the help

Bradley

You’re looking at about at least a 450 lb loss of useful load going from wheels to amphibious floats. This will turn your 180 into a 1-2 person airplane. My 185 is good for two people and gear or three and no baggage when on Aerocet amphibs.

Probably the smallest, lightest, least expensive floats for your 180H will be Edo 2790. Not sure about the basis of eligibility for this installation.

I bought a floatplane, found a steal of a deal on my amphibs, and switched to amphibs. I’m right side up in value, but I think that’s rare.

Might be better to find an amphibian that meets your needs, and sell the 180H.

Which Portland? Where do you expect to travel? Context: looking for an argument to prove you should buy straight floats and deal with the loss of convenience in favour of cost and useful load. You’ll need on water storage, and access to fuel to make this work.

Pine one is right. Amphibs will eat up a lot of useful load.

But, first, your 180 does have a float kit installed, correct? If not, find another airplane, with amphibs installed.

EDO 2790 floats are probably approved, but those floats have little reserve buoyancy, and they will make you REALLY learn to fly the plane off the water. They also may require a fair amount of maintenance.

Frankly, Aerocet amphibs are going to be the best floats for that plane. They are big, though I believe the floats on the 180 are a bit smaller than the 185 floats, or is it lighter?

Anyway, you’re also going to want an upgross, which Kenmore sells, and I believe the 180H is included on that STC. BUT, to get the upgross, you’ll have to swap your vertical fin for the higher, 185 or late 180 style vertical fin.

Bring $$$$, lots of it.

It’ll work if you rub enough $ on it.

MTV

Pinecone wrote: looking for an argument to prove you should buy straight floats and deal with the loss of convenience in favour of cost and useful load. You’ll need on water storage, and access to fuel to make this work.

I sold my home and am planning to move to a wet part of the country in pursuit of this argument! It can be done, @tbabbot. Whatever it takes for useful load.

mtv wrote:.....It’ll work if you rub enough $ on it.

Aerocet floats are the best. Yes, expensive to buy but they hold their value and will deliver the best performance and owner satisfaction. That adds up to the best value overall.

Kurt

Pinecone wrote:You’re looking at about at least a 450 lb loss of useful load going from wheels to amphibious floats. This will turn your 180 into a 1-2 person airplane. My 185 is good for two people and gear or three and no baggage when on Aerocet amphibs.

Probably the smallest, lightest, least expensive floats for your 180H will be Edo 2790. Not sure about the basis of eligibility for this installation.

I bought a floatplane, found a steal of a deal on my amphibs, and switched to amphibs. I’m right side up in value, but I think that’s rare.

Might be better to find an amphibian that meets your needs, and sell the 180H.

Which Portland? Where do you expect to travel? Context: looking for an argument to prove you should buy straight floats and deal with the loss of convenience in favour of cost and useful load. You’ll need on water storage, and access to fuel to make this work.

Located in Portland Maine, looking to fly through out northern Maine, parts of Labrador Canada at some point in the future.

mtv wrote:Pine one is right. Amphibs will eat up a lot of useful load.

But, first, your 180 does have a float kit installed, correct? If not, find another airplane, with amphibs installed.

EDO 2790 floats are probably approved, but those floats have little reserve buoyancy, and they will make you REALLY learn to fly the plane off the water. They also may require a fair amount of maintenance.

Frankly, Aerocet amphibs are going to be the best floats for that plane. They are big, though I believe the floats on the 180 are a bit smaller than the 185 floats, or is it lighter?

Anyway, you’re also going to want an upgross, which Kenmore sells, and I believe the 180H is included on that STC. BUT, to get the upgross, you’ll have to swap your vertical fin for the higher, 185 or late 180 style vertical fin.

Bring $$$$, lots of it.

It’ll work if you rub enough $ on it.

MTV

Yes plane came with float kit and straight floats that were a bit of a project. Sent them down the road, as fuel and safe water parking has become a harder and harder thing to find in southern Maine. That and I like the piece of mind of having the plane in a hanger.

Zzz wrote:

Pinecone wrote: looking for an argument to prove you should buy straight floats and deal with the loss of convenience in favour of cost and useful load. You’ll need on water storage, and access to fuel to make this work.

I sold my home and am planning to move to a wet part of the country in pursuit of this argument! It can be done, @tbabbot. Whatever it takes for useful load.

I like the move! Maine has lots of water!

Thanks guys for the advise,

From what I have heard the edo’s are “cheaper” but may be under-floated and hard to get parts for.

The Aerocet’s are top of the line and their price tag reflects that.

Any one have experience with some of the other floats on the market such as Whipair or PK floats, or any other makes that would be worth looking into?

tbabbott wrote:Thanks guys for the advise,

From what I have heard the edo’s are “cheaper” but may be under-floated and hard to get parts for.

The Aerocet’s are top of the line and their price tag reflects that.

Any one have experience with some of the other floats on the market such as Whipair or PK floats, or any other makes that would be worth looking into?

Well, if you’re in Maine, definitely get with PK Floats. I’m not sure if they’re approved on your model airplane, but the PK 3000 amphibs are excellent floats on the 185. I really like their electric/hydraulic system, much better than others.

Wipaire 3000 amphibious floats are also excellent performers, and are definitely approved on the 180H.

The same issue as Aerocet: None of these have been around long enough nor have enough been sold for them to have depreciated much.

The 2790 EDO floats could work. They are VERY long floats, so really easy (almost inevitable) to drag the heels, if you get in a hurry to takeoff.

The nose gears are actuated by cables and pulley system, driven off the main gear motors. So, there’s a cable system that runs from the main gear compartment through all the fwd bulkheads....not a great system, but they work. Fwd compartments are not totally water tight, though.

Price is probably right, though, if you can find a set in good condition.

But, if you’re intended travels are very far north, amphibs are a very good idea. I kept straight float planes outside for years, but never much liked it.

Amphibs will cost more to maintain. Wheel bearings go away fast, though I understand Aerocet now has sealed bearings. But, all those parts that are exposed to water regularly need a fair bit of attention. Not a huge deal, just time consuming.

The convenience and versatility, especially in finding fuel on amphibs versus straight floats is hard to overstate.

Airplanes are expensive. Floatplanes are more expensive than wheels, amphibs, more so yet.

If money is much of an issue, be absolutely certain to get a solid insurance quote for amphibious floats on your plane. The premium may be eye watering. Seaplane Pilots Assn used to have a discount with a good carrier.

And, whatever you do, put mirrors out on the wings to permit you to SEE the gear. And, gear up for water landing, every time.

MTV

My airplane was equipped with Edo 2790 amphibs when it was new in ‘76. Long before my ownership. It had 60 hours TTSN when it was left tied to a dock, tail toward shore, tips toward the waves. It sank! These floats have that reputation. It’s due to what MTV pointed out. Water can spill between compartments where the actuator cables go to the nose wheels.

I recommended them because I think the Aerocets are too big for a 180 at 2800 lb. gross. A 185 has a gross of 3350 that gets reduced to 3320 on the 2790s. I just looked at the Kenmore STC and their up gross STC only gets you to 3100 lb., not 3190 on 2790s.

I’ve seen a 180 on Edo 2705s. That’s a float that seems to match the airframe better.

Regarding wheel bearings: my mains on the Aerocets have the new seals. Excellent. They spend a two week period parked in water twice a year. Never any moisture in the bearings. The oil bath lubrication only has to be checked for quantity and contamination. No disassembly required. I only visually inspected the bearings when I changed the tires last year. The nose wheels don’t seal as well. I try to keep them tipped up out of the water instead of hanging down soaking.

If the price of new modern floats are acceptable to you, by all means, go for it. Do the math carefully though. Used late model amphib floats don’t come up for sale very often. More often they come for sale with an airplane attached. You might buy a complete A185F with Aerocets for less money than it will cost to put a 520, a bigger tail with weight STC, and new floats on your 180. The one piece at a time strategy worked for me, but you’ll never buy a set of Aerocets as cheap as I got mine.

Yes, as Pinecone noted, the older EDO amphibious floats are prone to sinking the front compartments. I would never heel up a plane on a beach or secure one out on a running line with those floats. The EDO 2705s have the same nose gear retract system, BTW.

In my opinion, the 2705s may not have enough reserve bouyancy for your airplane.....but that depends on your plane (empty weight, fuel tank size, projected loads, etc). Those floats are essentially EDO 2870 straight floats, modified with landing gear. The 2790s are 2960s with wheel gear. In my opinion, the 2870 was a much better float on an early 180 ( mine was a 66 H model) than the longer floats. EDO just tacked a couple extra compartments on the back end of the 2870s to increase displacement in 2960 and 2790 floats.

I’ve flown a 180 K model on Aerocet amphibious 3400 floats. I was very impressed with performance. Of course the K has the bigger fin so upgross is pretty easy and painless $$-wise.

If you have the big fuel tanks, two people and full gas may put you at max on the 2705s, but worth doing the math. If you can find a good set (somewhat of an oxymoron) they’ll be cheap.

Good luck.

MTV

All I have to contribute is that the straight Aerocets I fly for work on a upgrossed 180H with 520 make me drool. I know they aren't amphibs but: Big flat tops... texture molded in so no slipping... no rivet lines...compartments big enough for multiple small humans and/or large plastic totes to fit in.... never leak... easy to repair fiberglass if they do... they look cool as shit... that aerocet logo puts you in a distinguished class of society of which I've never been accepted otherwise... gosh dang my knees are getting weak just thinking about them.

My imaginary forever plane is a skywagon on 3500L's.

asa wrote:All I have to contribute is that the straight Aerocets I fly for work on a upgrossed 180H with 520 make me drool. I know they aren't amphibs but: Big flat tops... texture molded in so no slipping... no rivet lines...compartments big enough for multiple small humans and/or large plastic totes to fit in.... never leak... easy to repair fiberglass if they do... they look cool as shit... that aerocet logo puts you in a distinguished class of society of which I've never been accepted otherwise... gosh dang my knees are getting weak just thinking about them.

My imaginary forever plane is a skywagon on 3500L's.

Yep, and the amphibs are just as good, just a bit heavier.

Beautiful plane and location.

MTV

Thanks guys for the continued advise and experiences.
Looking to take my dad and I fishing through out Maine and eastern Canada, so want to take some gear but not looking to use this as a Part 135 operation, with full seats.
Plane also has the 64 gallon tanks which will help with weight but not range and makes it even more desirable for the wheels in the floats.

Has any one had experience with wipline amphibious floats?

Love seeing and hearing about all your skywagons on floats!

Bradley

tbabbott wrote:Thanks guys for the continued advise and experiences.
Looking to take my dad and I fishing through out Maine and eastern Canada, so want to take some gear but not looking to use this as a Part 135 operation, with full seats.
Plane also has the 64 gallon tanks which will help with weight but not range and makes it even more desirable for the wheels in the floats.

Has any one had experience with wipline amphibious floats?

Love seeing and hearing about all your skywagons on floats!

Bradley

The newest Wip floats are very nice, and perform well. The company is well run, and supports their floats. For the 180H, the 3000 float series would be the hot setup. These floats work, and they share system design with their other floats, so the bugs are dealt with. I’ve flown this new generation of Wip floats, but on a later 180. They work well.

If you’re going to talk to them, see if Amy Gesch is in. I think Amy is in sales now, and she’s a sharp young lady.

MTV

I like the people at PK Floats the best. Small company, good reputation, and cool guys to work with. Levi, their engineer and marketing guy (small company, wear many hats) is active on BCP.

I like CAP's but that might just be the "unabashed" Canadian in me talking

CAP built great floats, but I don’t think they ever built amphibious floats, at least for this size airplane.

PK builds good floats as well. They got a bad rep because of their early floats. But the current crop of PK floats are good performers.

MTV