The gov can only push so hard for so long and the people will push back. IMO we are getting closer to the time when we the people push back.

Do you remember Timothy McVeigh.

The Buffalo News printed several letters from McVeigh on the day of his execution in which he called his bombing a "legit tactic" in his war against what he believes is an oppressive federal government.

He wrote that he was "sorry" people died - but added, "That's the nature of the beast."

"He actually lifted his head and looked directly in the camera, and it was as if he was looking directly at us," said Larry Whicher, who lost his brother. "His eyes were unblinking. They appeared to be coal black. I truly believe that his eyes were telling me ... that if he could, he would do it all over again."

Hey Robb, that is part of the change. The more we depend on government to do for us what we should be doing for ourselbves, the more they can controle us.

Tim

qmdv wrote:Hey Robb, that is part of the change. The more we depend on government to do for us what we should be doing for ourselbves, the more they can controle us.

Tim

I retract the part about change. There is no change. Bush over spent and sarted this over controle of our lives and what we have now is more of the same. I wish there was a change.

Tim

Alaska lawmakers unite against aviation regs
By ANNE SUTTON - Associated Press Writer
JUNEAU, Alaska (AP) - New security measures being proposed for aircraft operations across the nation would cripple Alaska' air industry and the rural communities it serves, according to Alaska officials.

The state's congressional delegation, the state Legislature and the Palin Administration are protesting the proposed federal regulations in the public comment period that ends Friday.

The Transportation Security Administration - or TSA - wants to include large corporate and private aircraft under the same rules that apply to scheduled or charter services.

Lawmakers say the new rules would do little to strengthen national security but would be costly and burdensome for an industry already struggling to cope with volatile fuel prices and narrow profit margins.

RobBurson wrote:The gov can only push so hard for so long and the people will push back. IMO we are getting closer to the time when we the people push back.

Do you remember Timothy McVeigh.

The Buffalo News printed several letters from McVeigh on the day of his execution in which he called his bombing a "legit tactic" in his war against what he believes is an oppressive federal government.

He wrote that he was "sorry" people died - but added, "That's the nature of the beast."

"He actually lifted his head and looked directly in the camera, and it was as if he was looking directly at us," said Larry Whicher, who lost his brother. "His eyes were unblinking. They appeared to be coal black. I truly believe that his eyes were telling me ... that if he could, he would do it all over again."

Tim McVeigh,

So the cowardly bastard killed scores of innocent men, women and children. No different than the 911 terrorists.

If he was such a "revolutionary" why didn't he take on the USMC?

Bob

Technically, I suppose Timothy McVeigh was revolting against the U.S. government and could be called a revolutionary. But, on the basis of his results, I think that domestic terrorist and mass murderer are the best labels for him.

I don't think Rob Burson was holding him up as a shining example of leading the fight against oppressive governments. I think the point he was making was that as the government becomes more oppressive, more people will reach the threshold where they are willing to take action against the government. It's yet another reason for the government to avoid becoming oppressive, because there are people like McVeigh who would use horrific means in their fight against the government.

Just to be clear, I was talking about working within the system through effective lobbying, PACs, etc, to make sure we have adequate representation. Let's not confuse that with the actions of Timothy McVeigh, Mohammad Atta, or other terrorists who kill innocent people.

Begining June 1st, the TSA plans on implementing Security Directive 08 (revision G as of 29 May,2009) which will require background investigations and badges for general aviation pilots and businesses. The links at bottom describe those details that the agency has released.



If you agree that this rule is neither justified nor in keeping with the American ideal of individual liberty, then please:



1) Forward this message to the following addressees –

* eaa govt([email protected])remove contact
* [email protected] contact

[email protected] contact [email protected] contact [email protected] contact



2) Pass this message to everyone you know who is interested in general aviation, including airport managers.



3) Cut and paste the letter below and send it to your Senators and Representative at http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml



For AOPA, EAA, NATA – Please help forward this message to the Department of Homeland Security and the Congressional oversight committees. We ask you to hold the line with the government to prevent any compromise of our basic freedoms.


Secretary Janet Napolitano
Department of Homeland Security
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Washington, DC 20528



Secretary Napolitano,



I call on you to halt the implementation of TSA Security Directive 8 which requires that all pilots, business owners and employees merely located on airports that have any level of commercial air carrier traffic, undergo background investigations and receive security badges in order to have continued access to their airports.



We have the expectation to be able to conduct normal, everyday activities unfettered by the arbitrary actions of a Federal agency.



We will not surrender that liberty absent overwhelming justification.



Government should not hinder citizens in their pursuit of happiness.



Madam, do not stand between the people and their property, their work and their dreams by making access to general aviation aircraft and businesses unnecessarily difficult.



http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2 ... adges.html

http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2 ... urity.html

http://www.calpilots.org/html/article.php?sid=2390

http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-28_deadline.asp

http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-29_8g.asp

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... 9760696f80

Scolopax, I have done so.

Done, Sent to both senators and representative.

This sucks!!

Rob

Just went and picked mine up for the Juneau International Airport. Took two trips over there, one to fill out the paperwork and deliver in person, the second to pay the $60, get a mugshot, and pick it up. The process takes 2 days here. Basically the TSA look you up to see if you are on the "no-fly" list as I understand it. Now they don't want you to display this new badge, mind you, but you have to have it on your person in case you are "challenged" by someone to see it, or they can levy a $10,000 fine. I figure I will ask for theirs as well.

I complained to all of my congress people, might as well go out and piss against the wind. Not a single swinging Richard has the sand to stand up to Homeland Security. We need to throw out every incumbent next election day. Every one.

gb

Alliance for Aviation wrote:Please take a moment now to urge your representative to support Congressman John Mica's proposed amendment to the TSA Reauthorization Act, which is scheduled for a floor vote TODAY.

http://capwiz.com/aviationacrossamerica/utr/1/FDHOKPNOFC/FUJWKPNQJK/3437249471

Well, if it's TODAY, then it's prob too late to write. It would have been nice to have gotten this email a few days ago.

So how do you know which airports are effected by this crap?
tom

If a fed ask for your ID then you know.

RobBurson wrote:If a fed ask for your ID then you know.

That's nutz!

The short of it is basically any airport with air carrier service that has a security program in place.

If you have airline service, you get a "threat assessment".

gb

Savannah-Tom wrote:So how do you know which airports are effected by this crap?
tom

A couple things here. First, it's for any airport with passenger service. Second, you only have to have the ID card for the airport where you keep your plane or any airport where you want to be able to access the airport by going thru the fence, either on foot or by driving. If the airport where you keep your plane does not have airline service then you don't need a card. You never need a card if you fly into an airport, whether or not that airport has airline service, and stay inside the fence. Once you leave the airport, say to get lunch, then to get back in you will have to be let in by FBO personnel if that airport has airline sevice. We got our briefing a little over a month ago by one of the regional directors of TSA. If the airport you are at has any policies stricter than this then your beef is with the local airport, remember the big brouhaha you heard about at some Denver airports this past winter. None of that was TSA but rather who ever runs the Denver airports.

Anybody know what this means for a place like McCall? I'm sure a lot of us fly in there in the evening and walk over to the Super 8 after the FBOs are closed, and then return to the plane in the morning and take off before the FBOs open.

Hard to say. Here in Montana we're(Meaning the state government) famous for telling the Feds to go screw themselves. At Billings where I'm based we've had gate cards to get thru the fence since I got here in 1993. Nothing has changed with the gate cards and it doesn't cost anything to get. You watch a couple of instructional/security videos and you're good for two more years. Just did mine this last January so I'm good til 2011. I've heard Missoula is doing the TSA background check thing so it seems to vary.

Oft quoted during a dark era of the recent past....

"May I see your papers?" No correction. It was... "May I see your papers!" rather than a request. Homeland Security is a potential Gestapo. Treating law abiding citizens as potential terrorist is everything that America does not stand for. We as a free people are in danger of losing more freedoms every day.

Those of us in aviation are constantly asked to "watch" one another: be "suspicious" of others, "challenge" innocent passersby, "report" on others, "restrict" kids from the airport. My God it sounds like the behavior once attributed to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. I resent it with all my being. This is not the country of my fathers or of my recent past. And before we jump on Obama....this all started long before his presidency. It must stop. We cannot let the bad guys steal our freedom by creating fear. We must not allow our government and uncontrolled agencies, to impose such restrictions on our life.

I am a moderate person.....conservative/liberal....liberal/conservative. But I treasure my freedom of speech, movement and activities. I treasure my anonymity. I resent being monitored. A free man should be free of suspicion unless one demonstrates or attempts an illegal act. Where does it all end?

Restrict the security area around airline operations all you wish. I spent 36 years in the industry. Ended my career, as an airline captain, once possessed of a secret security clearance, being responsible for a 100 million dollar aircraft and 250 lives, yet being frisked like a potential criminal and locked behind a bullet proof cockpit door, protected by pilots carrying 9 m.m. pistols and Federal Air Marshals in the cabin. Yet there were many, many ways to breach that security. Remember the terrorist of 911 didn't break any laws until they began slitting throats. There was no restriction against carrying box cutter aboard airliners. I didn't like that either. But there will always be loopholes for determined murders.

When away and removed from the airline operation area.....leave us alone. Treating general aviation and it's pilots as potential terrorist is ridiculous. Hell....after 911 the Airforce test flew an F-4 fighter drone by flying it at 600 mph into a concrete structure equal to the strength of the cooling tower at a Nucelar Power Plant. The F-4 disintengrated....leaving a black smudge on the concrete surface. Not even a crack in the structure.

Meanwhile 70,000 pound 18 wheelers roar down our highways by the 10's of thousands....loaded with gasoline....easily rammed into any building or structure and no one thinks of that as a threat. Nor do I. But where is the greater and unmonitored danger? My 2,300 lb. M5-210-C with 66 gallons of fuel or that monster truck?

Rant over,

Bob