Great stories! Thats what I'm talking about!

So, you could say I am completely freaking out! Its completely unreal!!!

14 landings today, 6 different spots. Snow was maybe 12-16 inches (what skiers call hot pow)

HOW DO YOU TURN AROUND IN A TIGHT SPACE??? Seems like the throttle is your friend and you need to work it. Advice??

Was taking me about a 200 foot area to turn around.

Here are 3 pics from todays glorious events!

Great photos!

I'm no pro at tight turns, but you might check out the Paul Claus footage in Big Rocks/ Long Props on Ice (Vol 3). He describes power ground-loops to turn the plane 180, and demonstrates it. Caveat is that you had better be really sure of a smooth surface beneath, and minimal side-loading on the gear. I do this once in a while when I'm very confident of the surface conditions, and have some justification to do it. When I first got skis I upgraded the attachment bolts at the fuselage, and swapped my solid aluminum axles for steel. This fall I added a PPonk gear beef-up kit for a little added reinforcement. Probably not something you want to make a regular habit out of, but useful to know, for when you might need it. (I'm on Aero 3000 straight skis with a UHMW base and steel skeg, BTW. Power ground loops might not be advisable on your retractable skis?)

Make left turns.

If making a left turn, start with a right turn and then hammer it hard left (so you are making more of a 270 vs a 180). It seems to use less overall width, possibly because it permits you to use more throttle, like you said. It also makes better use of runway width if you are beginning from the centerline of a runway where you have just back taxied.

If there's no better option, you can put a rope or some other obstacle under the ski you wish to pivot around. FE Potts' book covers this pretty thoroughly. Similarly, you can get some poor schlepp (that would be me in my previous post) to stand in the slipstream and hang onto the strut on the side you wish to turn toward.

Congrats on your first day out. I feel your excitement!

By the way, I took some of the blank columns in the standard Pilots logbook and devoted them to ski landings, and ski plane PIC time. Not that anyone else cares (besides Iditarod Airforce), but it makes me happy to see it there.

Ak,
Down here in Carson with airglas penetration skis and a buddy with a super cub on skis too. Maybe we can fart around sometime. Mtv and others, your stories cracked me up. Been on Pika glacier but only end of season packed snow.

Denalipilot,

Great story! Alaska aviation suffered a GREAT loss with the passing of Jay and his Dad before him. Two of the most experienced and capable pilots in the state.

Aktahoe,

Turning around: Slow the airplane to a walk first, almost stopped, then full forward yoke (to lighten the tail), FULL left rudder and SHORT BLASTS of power. It sounds and feels ugly, but it's the only way to turn around in minimal space, and that is what determines where you can land. If possible, ALWAYS land in places where you can land, stop, then take off straight ahead to aleviate the turning issue. But there are a lot of places where you'll have to turn around. The key is to get as much weight off the tailwheel or tail ski as possible, while NOT getting the airplane so loaded up on the mains that the main skis start to dig in. It's pretty hard to get a Cessna up on its mains at slow speeds, so little risk of toeing a ski in, but....

Blasts of power, ROAR, silence, ROAR, silence, till you're around. You cannot allow the momentum of the airplane to build. If you do, the plane will want to go straight, not turn.

Again, it sounds rude, but...

MTV

Mowers old bird never looked so good.... Looks like a new paint job

BRD wrote:Hmmm... It must be snowing / wind howling and about -15 in Crookston today... with Lutefisk for supper and no skis on the airplane yet...

Great thread, lovin the pics, keep 'em coming. More snow in the forecast!

denalipilot wrote:

aktahoe1 wrote:Hotrod- The wheels definitely come up and over and then onto the skis.

...as do the axles, gear legs, and airframe- the whole shooting match. Maybe that's the confusion here.

That's a novel way to put it. I guess I would say that the ski's articulate around the wheels (& by extension the rest of the airplane), not the other way around. But that's just me....

[quote="aktahoe1"]Great stories! Thats what I'm talking about!

So, you could say I am compeltey freaking out! Its completely unreal!!!

14 landings today, 6 different spots. Snow was maybe 12-16 inches (what skiers call hot pow)

HOW DO YOU TURN AROUND IN A TIGHT SPACE??? Seems like the throttle is your friend and you need to work it. Advice??

Was taking me about a 200 foot area to turn around.

Turning around is probably 75% or more of the educational process in ski flying, at least it was/is for me! I quickly found out that the slopes I was landing on last spring had a double fall line, and the difference in turning radius in a ever so slight downhill sideslope versus a ever so slight uphill sideslope was A LOT. This was also about the time I realized that in a lot of cases backing off of the throttle was the wrong thing to do, as there went my only control (rudder). One time I got to use my handy dandy lightweight super sharp hatchet, when I realized my turn radius/fall line was not going to let me clear the tree line in time. I laid out a short trail of tree branches so that side ski would drag down and help the turn, it worked great.

This year I will also be flying with a min. of 50' of good rope plus a lightweight block and tackle. I am debating shovels: the high dollar smaller folding types versus my paid for bigger non folding grain shovel. Snowshoes I have already, plus a split board and hiking poles for transport out (!!).
The Rotax 912S not being known for its cold weather start capability, I am not screwing around in that department: I have a 120 watt pad heater on the oil sump, and two 100 watt heaters epoxied on the crankcase bottom (Reiff, going on today), and... it looks like a Yamaha EF1000 IS generator, at 27 lbs, is doable for me to pack around just in case, I can use it of course for other things so what the hell. I can charge the battery with the 12 VDC output while running the AC loads, and I may also run the exhaust stream under the cowl with a flex pipe, I hate to see that warm air go to waste. An old sleeping bag I keep using but want to get rid of will be converted to a cowl blanket, and wing covers are on order, the mesh type.

Since we have received record early snowfall, my skis are on and I am ready to go, the wind just has to back off a tad, less then 30 direct cross wind would be nice! I've been waiting a few weeks now.....My last item for this first full winter of ski flying (I got mine last spring, but got to wring them out pretty good in the last few weeks of winter up high) is somewhat unusual, I have "engineered" an automatic rope release as I have to deal with a 12% grade as soon as I get off my concrete pad in front of the hangar, this is my own design, and I think it is safe to say unlike any other. It will allow me to do a runup without moving, even engine off I can't just "park" headed down the slope.It will work on anything from the lightest ultralight to the biggest twin, without modification. It adds no weight to the aircraft. My cost is about 20 bucks. As near as I can tell, it is fail safe in operation. If nothing else, it will be good for a huge laugh when others see it, (still secret for now)! While I am waiting on the weather I am enjoying your adventures aktahoe, get some!

I really like this trick to make a tight turn.

Take a 2X4 and cut is so that is a little bit longer than the width of the skis. Lay the 2x4 flat and drill holes at both ends. Get a rope and tie a knot to one side. Lay the whole contraption under the front of the ski on the side of the direction you want to turn. Tie the rope over the ski through the hole on the other side so as you taxi it will catch on the pedestal. Give it the gas and appropriate rudder and watch it turn on a dime. When in the direction you need get out, untie the knot on one side, taxi a few feet forward and pick up your tool.

This works great when you don't have any friends to hang off the strut.

Enjoy the snow, can't wait until I have some to "make some turns" myself

Mike

electricsnail wrote:I really like this trick to make a tight turn.

Take a 2X4 and cut is so that is a little bit longer than the width of the skis. Lay the 2x4 flat and drill holes at both ends. Get a rope and tie a knot to one side. Lay the whole contraption under the front of the ski on the side of the direction you want to turn. Tie the rope over the ski through the hole on the other side so as you taxi it will catch on the pedestal. Give it the gas and appropriate rudder and watch it turn on a dime. When in the direction you need get out, untie the knot on one side, taxi a few feet forward and pick up your tool.

This works great when you don't have any friends to hang off the strut.

Enjoy the snow, can't wait until I have some to "make some turns" myself

Mike

Mike,
I like it, nothing like sharing info on what is a pretty arcane sport to start with, we need all the input we can get! An aircraft quality 2x4 will be modified today, I got just the thing, it was about to go into the shop wood stove.

MTV pretty much describes the way that I turn my Husky on skis. However, don't forget the old tried and true method of throwing a rope over the wing and having your friend, wife, or passenger hang on while you power it around. Works every time and really wakes up the person on the rope.

This thread made me late for work..great stories, even better pics! thanks, and keep them coming.

Don,

Nope, Graham painted the airplane a year or so before I bought it from him. Almost everything else has been recovered, restored, refreshed, though...

I agree that a 2 x 4 rigged as described will facilitate a turn, but these things all require some monkey motion to make them work. In a pinch, great idea. If you're out ski flying a lot, though, just learning to turn short and then CAREFULLY and wisely choosing the places you land will hopefully facilitate the turning process so gadgets aren't needed.

I recall talking to one of the old time pilots in our outfit years ago. I asked him what got him interested in flying. He said that his first winter in Fairbanks he was flying as a passenger with one of the pilots in a V-77 Stinson (a LARGE airplane) and they were on skis. They got stuck, and the pilot told him to get out and push, tug, pull, etc to get turned around. It was -40. When he got back in the plane, the pilot told him "Son, there are two kinds of game agents in this state: Pushers and Blasters. You are a Pusher. I can tell you, however, that being a Blaster is a LOT better deal." He said he started taking flight lessons that spring.

MTV

The learning curve on this one is going to be a lot of fun! Great stories! Really great! Low Rider and I started packing the plane today with all of our gear we are going to need to be taking in order to spend the night just in case....with all the beer, rope and 2 x 4's we are now not certain we will get off the ground..but if we do, we are going to get stuck for certain, so we are prepared to have a white mans fire with plenty of survival sodas and rope to tie up the natives...

I can hardly wait to see one of us hanging off the wing with a rope (to turn around of course...) This could just start turning into a crazy dream with all that we are starting to imagine

On a serious note, thanks for all of the 1st hand advice. I dont shed it lightly and very anxious to get playing with the various ideas. Blowing here today maybe 30 plus and snow moving in tonight.

Curious if everyone is running a tail ski?

More stories please! They are great reads!

I run a tail penetration ski. I find that with a 170 with BAS handles, I can still manhandle the tail around when I want to, and having the tail ski helps prevent it from sinking in as far. And I rarely need the ability to dig the tail wheel in to get stopped short.

On the question about what shovel to carry, that someone raised above- I never regret having a grain scoop along, but when I've had to move a lot of snow with a little avalanche shovel, I've usually ended up second-guessing the decision to bring it. Avalanche shovels do well for portability, and focused digging in hard, set-up snow. Grain scoops are great for moving a shitload of loose snow, which is more often than not the situation I find myself in ski flying. Also depends on your baggage compartment constraints, of course.

FWIW,

-DP

Like DP, i like a grain scoop when I have to dig but a short handled avalanche shovel is better if ya gotta dig a snow cave in a pinch.

Cheers, Bill

This is a great Shovel. (The Chugach Pro) Big blade and and good weight, with extension.
http://backcountryaccess.com/index.php? ... ge=Chugach
One of the best and most durable out there. Have done lots of snow tests on shovels and this really is the best one going.

This one is also good but not like the one I posted above here. Comes with a saw that can cut through willows, good for building snow caves, etc. (The Arsenal with saw)
http://backcountryaccess.com/index.php?id=68

My vote is for a grain scoop, for the reasons that Once and future noted. You need to move a LOT of snow when you're stuck. The only time I don't carry a grain scoop is if baggage space prohibits it. Actually, at times one of my super size snowshoes works better than one of those wimpy little climbing shovels.

The pictures of the snow you've posted shows really nice snow conditions: enough to land on and cover the divits, but not so deep you're apt to get stuck.

I LIKE tailskis. On ANY airplane. You'll hear guys argue that you can't dig your tailwheel in to use it as a brake. If the snow is that hard, you probably aren't going to be able to get your tailwheel to punch through either. The tail ski, more than anything, protects your tail surfaces, and permits more precision on takeoff, when you are trying to find that perfect pitch attitude that will (just barely) permit you to accelerate, but yet not be so nose down as to have the skis hit the aft limit cables.

The tailski allows the tail to kind of float. And, if you have crusty snow conditions, it's easier to keep the tail on top of a crust with a ski on it.

MTV

aktahoe1 wrote:
Curious if everyone is running a tail ski?

I prefer using a tailwheel ski. The ski seems to prevent the wheel from breaking through crust and also facilitates low speed ground turning in deep snow.

Neat pics and stories Kevin! Not very often you get to see someone on skis in CA, hydraulic or otherwise. Bet there are some awesome places to go heading north out of Nervino.......Up toward Susanville, Eagle Lake, etc. Also thought it would be fun to land someplace like 73CA (Bear Valley) on skis during the winter......Someday, I guess. Just gotta get the 180 first. Then I can join the fun.

Flynengr