I'm ready buddy, keep practicing....

Don your pic looks like it could have been awhile back but ak's looks new.........you know these people? ak , in your pic it looks like a satellite dish next to the plane....watching T.V. ...

Thanks for posting the photos of the Cessna 206s on skis. I dont really need skis in MO but when I drove home to ND for Thanksgiving I almost got stuck in the yard. Would have got stuck with the 206 on wheels. I have been thinking about making my own penetration skis. Ill would have to put them on my experimental 206.

Regal is on Lake Hood. Largest small plane base in the world! You can see every plane you wish to see there.

I am ready for you Zane! 21 landings with the skis and counting now. As MTV says, I am going to need a Pusher and a Digger soon I just know it, so hurry up and get down here!

I've flown a C-206 on retractable wheel skis, one on Fli Lite 4000's, with a Fli Lite 3000 on the nose gear, and one with C-3600's on the mains, and a Schneider penetration ski on the nose.

I can tell you that a penetration ski on the nose is a UNIQUELY bad idea, in my limited experience.

The other problem with ANY of the retractable wheel ski equipped 206's is all the STC's I ever met limited the Gross Weight to 3200 or 3300, which meant you couldn't carry anything....legally.

The 206 (or 182) on skis work fairly well, though. Both are heavy on the nose, so you really need to carry some weight in the back, but they work if you learn how to make them work.

MTV

Bighorn wrote:Anybody got a 206 on Skis? Got any pics?

From another thread:



Flown as a passenger in this aircraft in this configuration. Worked great on a packed glacier landing zone. Wouldn't want to try it in powder with those wheel skis

Yep awhile back for sure I think they are the same skis, not many around, sold one set to Craig at Regal and the other to Hank Rust when I decided to go walleye fishing and pheasant hunting for good

Bighorn wrote:Don your pic looks like it could have been awhile back but ak's looks new.........you know these people? ak , in your pic it looks like a satellite dish next to the plane....watching T.V. ...

Can I get a little info on how some skis are better than others? Retract wheel skis, penetration skis, straight skis. I can understand that long, narrow straight skis would provide the least snow drag / floatation. Penetration skis have the bump of the tire creating drag in the snow, have to be wide making them drag more. Is it harder to steer the long ski vs the wide penetration? Most of my snow time is on wheels or snow mobile, I have found that I only need floation for short distances, over drifts and soft spots. ND the wind moves the snow around and it gets a hard crust fast. Im sure just using larger tires would do most of the work I need (I dont need skis, I just want them) I would have needed skis to get around the yard in ND this Thanksgiving but could have navigated the driveway to take off with my 8.50s and 700 nose. A long time ago I did get my 500x5 nose wheeled 182 stuck in the driveway one year, Dad went and got the tractor, cleared the drive, pulled me out of the ditch. Not the first time he pulled me out of the ditch, just the first time pulling an airplane out of a ditch. In my case the penetration skis would get me past the rough spots to a low drag takeoff runway, our lakes have plenty of roads broken on top of them but taxing behind the ice houses or to just turn around I would get a nose wheel stuck. Im not interested in going though making electric retracts, just simple small aerodynamic penetration skis / wheel pants.

Don
I love the pictures......

Skydive206
I have the same intrest as you do so I will be watching the responses......hope we will both get some info from this group eh

Had some good fun with Lowrider yesterday. These are pics of him and his first ski landings. Conditions are getting thin around here with the high snow line as of late but its pretty good fun flying and landing in the slushy conditions. Maybe 6-8 inches of Slushy snow.

Anxious to go try to not get stuck in the deeper snow and have him pushing and digging. Zane is coming down in a week or so and he will also become a digger and pusher!!! Good times ahead for certain.

Now if I could only figure out to load a video on here....Have some good ones of our escapades. Cool to see how this thread continues to grow. Lets see some other pics of your plane in action on skis.

url=http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery/albums/userpics/12335/IMG_5539.JPG][/url]
url=http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery/albums/userpics/12335/IMG_5541.JPG][/url]

Hello Backcountry Pilots,
Looks cold to me! "Powered lawn furniture on skis"?

James
Spokane

James is that your Drifter? Those are great planes if you like eating bugs like some of us do.

I guess I need some new snow boots that aren't made for clipping into bindings. I'm a maniac with a shovel though, fingers crossed.

James
Might have to find a pair of long johns to wear when it got below zero.......

I'm building a 1,000' grass runway at my place in the Cascade mountains, and I'm hoping to use it for year round, which means skis in the winter. I'm planning on a 185 for fun, but I've been trying to track down performance info on skis. Even a percentage degradation would be great. In other words, if your 180/185/206 take XX for takeoff on grass, what's the relative performance on skis? I know the answer depends greatly on the skis, the depth and type of snow, but let's start somewhere. Since I had a T206 on wheels and amphib floats, I know the difference for floats, but the data for skis is really sparse.

In ideal conditions - a few inches of dry snow, light load - what's the takeoff performance like compared to grass?

Thanks much,
John

John,

There's a good reason that information of that type is sparse: It's impossible to answer that question for the very reasons you noted. The type and depth of snow is such a huge and wildly changing variable that it's impossible to even estimate these kinds of data.

But, a couple inches of LIGHT, DRY snow won't affect the takeoff performance of a 185 that much on a hard surface. But, in those conditions, I'd probably opt for wheels, not skis, since the airplane will be a 130 pounds lighter, depending on the type of skis. If that's all the snow you have, I can't imagine why you'd even want skis. If you don't have a good base of snow on your runway, even grass covered with a bit of snow can be REALLY draggy, though. I watched a guy a few weeks ago here trying to get a 180 airborne on penetration skis on a level turf runway with four or five inches of snow, and I wasn't sure he was going to ever get airborne on a 3500 foot long strip.

There are going to be conditions where a 185 will come out of a 1000 foot strip okay on skis, and other days when it might not take off at all, regardless of the length of runway.

In my opinion, expecting to be able to operate a Cessna 185 out of a 1000 foot strip on skis wouldn't be my idea of a good plan. That length of strip may even be sort of marginal on WHEELS,depending on obstacles and conditions/loads.

You can guarantee that a 185 on skis is going to take a LOT more runway to launch on skis. Every day is going to be different, though.

MTV

The type certificate data sheet (no. A-799) for the Cessna 170 series has the following:

“PERFORMANCE WITH SKIS INSTALLED
Takeoff and landing: Under the most favorable conditions of smooth packed snow at temperatures approximately 30F, skiplane takeoff performance is approximately 10 percent greater than the distance shown for the landplane. Skiplane landing distance is approximately 20 percent greater than that shown for the landplane. In applying the performance data, caution should be exercised in that lower temperatures or other snow conditions will increase the ski friction and hence increase the takeoff run and either increase or decrease the landing run.
Climb Performance: The skiplane rate of climb is approximately 50 feet per minute less than the landplane.”

Your mileage may vary, but check your type certificate as it should have similar language.

Merry Christmas, Bill

John,
Have a friend who operates a '54 180 out of 700' in the Selway/Bitterroots at about 3000' altitude. Lands in unpacked snow with wheels down (don't know if this is approved or how much stress it induces on the pivot arm of the Federal/Fluidyne/Wip hydraulics). Has a D2 Cat which they run up and down part of the strip to really get things packed down and relatively smooth. Can't carry much more than a passenger and less than half tanks out. Threshold dumps you off a high river cutbank so you get to use all 700'. There is also a slight grade which helps with acceleration/deceleration but I couldn't tell you exact percent. It's sporty even in the summer when heat and density altitude play against you.

John,

1000 ft is not that much. Mike hit the nail on the head. Steve (C185F)

jhflying wrote:I'm building a 1,000' grass runway at my place in the Cascade mountains, and I'm hoping to use it for year round, which means skis in the winter. I'm planning on a 185 for fun, but I've been trying to track down performance info on skis.

Before lengthening our 1,000 ft strip to 2,200 ft, my neighbor regularly flew both his super cub and C185 off the strip. However, he usually parked his C185 10 miles away in McCarthy and just flew his cub into our strip in the winter time. He owns one of the two commercial air taxis in McCarthy and is very accomplished on skis and short backcountry air strips. While he never had a problem getting in or out of our strip in its shorter length with his 185, the margin was such that it was just easier to use the cub -- snow conditions are always changing.

We generally pack our airstrip when the snow gets deep, but I remember the least time that he landed there when the snow was probably about 24 inches unpacked. Well he buried it. So we packed the runway and dug him out and he didn't have any problem getting out.

When we pack the runway, we do it by running up and down the runway with our snowmachines to pack the snow and than drag it with a homemade snow drag to smooth it out. The following day the snow will have "setup" and is great for winter takeoffs and landings. Ours is a great winter airstrip, and at 2,200 feet and well packed, it is great for the 185 as well. Our Husky jumps off the runway in a shorter distance than the local cubs.

Here is a shot of my other neighbor taking off on three feet of packed snow from our airstrip in his Husky.

I used to fly my C170B on skis and had a lot of experience flying with my dad in the C180 on skis as well. I flew only off the lakes and never on snow covered fields so only had straight skis. Here are a few things I learned and some tricks to pass along.

* Pack down your parking area and runway with a snowmobile or by taxiing over the area repeatedly. This will freeze the ice better and reduce the dreaded slush overflow that often shows up on lakes especially after heavy snowfalls.

* When warming up the engine at your parking spot apply full flaps. This directs the prop blast down and blows away loose snow.

* Put something under your skis when parked so they don't freeze to the snow. Shake the plane by the wing strut to break the skis free before starting up.

* Taxi with takeoff flaps applied to help get some of the weight off the skis. You will be using considerably more power to taxi than when on wheels.

* Keep your speed up when taxiing in slush. If you get stuck and have a passenger, get the passenger to get out and shake the plane by the wing strut until you can move the plane again. Taxi a few circles around the passenger and then stop on your tracks to pick him up again. Did this lots with my dad.

*Landing on snow on a cloudy day is like landing on glassy water with floats. You can't tell how high you are above the surface. Land near a shoreline if possible and use the glassy water technique.

* Stay away from creek and river mouths on a lake. The ice conditions are usually bad there due to flowing water.

I don't put the C180 on skis, although I have them. The changeover from floats is expensive, the days are short, its hard on the plane (slush, snowmobile tracks, etc.) and generally I just can't justify it . I sure miss ski flying though.