http://videowall.accuweather.com/detail ... Start=true
Video almost looks fake. Glad everyone walked away. Can some of the Heli pilots here described what just happened?
Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:22 pm
- SixTwoLeemer offline
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Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:26 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
I'm no chopper pilot, but it looks like they were landing with a tailwind, and an errant gust got under the main rotor while he was still under a load (not sure what the terminology is, but he was still "flying") and popped it back into the air.
Im guessing that a with some strong gusty tailwinds, a helicopter is about like trying to control a tailwheel on the ground. Always better to be into the wind nose first meaning everything is less effective. Or need to be on your "toes" a bit more than usual.
Im guessing that a with some strong gusty tailwinds, a helicopter is about like trying to control a tailwheel on the ground. Always better to be into the wind nose first meaning everything is less effective. Or need to be on your "toes" a bit more than usual.
- Crzyivan13 offline
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Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:38 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
It looks like whoever is in the right seat either pushed the cyclic forward or hooked a sleeve on it reaching for something else.
- Nosedragger offline
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Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:25 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
I'm betting it was some type of influence from a passenger or some type of mechanical. It's not likely that a gust would affect the ship that way. It appears that he approaches from screen left, into the wind and does a pedal turn to align with the pad. He does a pretty darn good job flying the aircraft right until it pitches forward violently. Either way, amazing video and one amazing vacation story!
- propeller26 offline
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Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:19 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
He was fighting a tailwind. He kept lowering the tail but then leveled the aircraft several times. They evidently had some preferred direction to deplane pax, not a good idea.
He needed to make a bit of a three point landing or just pedal turn into the wind. Once he saw he was going onto his nose, he attempted a go around.
The helicopter can tip to the point of no return very quickly laterally or fore or aft. Lateral slope operations cause most tip overs. We set one skid and slowly lower the other with collective. Approaching the tip over point, we have to pull pitch and pop off unless the other skid is firmly down.
He pulled pitch after finding the tip over point. There is no possible recovery beyond the tip over point.
He needed to make a bit of a three point landing or just pedal turn into the wind. Once he saw he was going onto his nose, he attempted a go around.
The helicopter can tip to the point of no return very quickly laterally or fore or aft. Lateral slope operations cause most tip overs. We set one skid and slowly lower the other with collective. Approaching the tip over point, we have to pull pitch and pop off unless the other skid is firmly down.
He pulled pitch after finding the tip over point. There is no possible recovery beyond the tip over point.
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Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:27 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
Winds can get under the back of a disk pretty good in a tail wind. This is exacerbated by the horizontal stabs back on the tailboom.
Not sure if that's what happened here, but it's possible.
Not sure if that's what happened here, but it's possible.
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Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:36 am
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
I doubt the wind had much to do with it, It would have taken a severe gust to move the chopper in such an aggressive manner. Seconds after the chopper clips the bushes and disappears behind camera, the trees are just lightly swaying in the breeze. Looks more mechanical, or possible some psycho got a hold of the controls.This is just my alcoholic opinion. ,
- Sidewinder offline
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Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:07 am
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
I fly an Astar just like that for a living.
I'm betting the tail kicked up due to a tailwind and got past the pilots ability to do anything about it so then he tried a go around.
There is nothing you can do to put that tail down once it goes up. If you look at the design of the horizontal stabilizer you will see why. It is designed to push the tail down in forward flight. So a gust of wind from behind does just the opposite.
I watched that video about 10 times and thats the best I can come up with.
That or a passenger or someone else pushed that Cyclic hard forward thats the only other way to get that helicopter into that attitude.
I'm betting the tail kicked up due to a tailwind and got past the pilots ability to do anything about it so then he tried a go around.
There is nothing you can do to put that tail down once it goes up. If you look at the design of the horizontal stabilizer you will see why. It is designed to push the tail down in forward flight. So a gust of wind from behind does just the opposite.
I watched that video about 10 times and thats the best I can come up with.
That or a passenger or someone else pushed that Cyclic hard forward thats the only other way to get that helicopter into that attitude.
Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:22 am
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
670x wrote:I fly an Astar just like that for a living.
I'm betting the tail kicked up due to a tailwind and got past the pilots ability to do anything about it so then he tried a go around.
There is nothing you can do to put that tail down once it goes up. If you look at the design of the horizontal stabilizer you will see why. It is designed to push the tail down in forward flight. So a gust of wind from behind does just the opposite.
I watched that video about 10 times and thats the best I can come up with.
That or a passenger or someone else pushed that Cyclic hard forward thats the only other way to get that helicopter into that attitude.
At 17-18 second mark, watch the person in the right seat. It sure looks like they pushed the cyclic forward.
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Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:46 am
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
Because the cyclic, in the right hand, needs more attention in helicopters than the collective, in the left hand, most helicopters are driven from the right seat. This allows radio change and nose scratching with the less necessary left hand. I expect the pilot in the right seat chose to land downwind because of SOP and the wind moved him forward when he leveled the helicopter to touch down and rolled him over when the toe of the skids touched down, same as in a pole vault.
Wind management becomes more critical as speed is reduced, helicopter or airplane. The percentage of wind speed to airspeed is higher the slower our airspeed. I expect our industry's seeming unconcern with wind management nowdays has much to do with airplanes going faster and the drivers of same having greater influence on aviation theory, practice, and procedures.
Wind energy is especially influential to hovering helicopters and to airplanes and helicopters on or near the ground and during takeoff and landing. In these situations mostly, wind management is critical.
Wind management becomes more critical as speed is reduced, helicopter or airplane. The percentage of wind speed to airspeed is higher the slower our airspeed. I expect our industry's seeming unconcern with wind management nowdays has much to do with airplanes going faster and the drivers of same having greater influence on aviation theory, practice, and procedures.
Wind energy is especially influential to hovering helicopters and to airplanes and helicopters on or near the ground and during takeoff and landing. In these situations mostly, wind management is critical.
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Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:05 am
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
The chopper jocks on PoA make a pretty convincing case that there wasn't nearly enough wind (no significant surf, trees not really moving, no issues with the landing prior to the event) and that it had to be someone hitting the wrong lever in the cockpit.
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Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:30 am
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
It always cracks me up when people who know nothing 'bout nothin' weigh in as if they do.
I'll put myself firmly in the same camp, but I'm not pretending to know about rotorcraft. I'll listen to those who have the experience.
I'll put myself firmly in the same camp, but I'm not pretending to know about rotorcraft. I'll listen to those who have the experience.
Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:18 am
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
flattie45 wrote:It always cracks me up when people who know nothing 'bout nothin' weigh in as if they do.
I'll put myself firmly in the same camp, but I'm not pretending to know about rotorcraft. I'll listen to those who have the experience.
Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:11 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
wNosedragger wrote:670x wrote:I fly an Astar just like that for a living.
I'm betting the tail kicked up due to a tailwind and got past the pilots ability to do anything about it so then he tried a go around.
There is nothing you can do to put that tail down once it goes up. If you look at the design of the horizontal stabilizer you will see why. It is designed to push the tail down in forward flight. So a gust of wind from behind does just the opposite.
I watched that video about 10 times and thats the best I can come up with.
That or a passenger or someone else pushed that Cyclic hard forward thats the only other way to get that helicopter into that attitude.
At 17-18 second mark, watch the person in the right seat. It sure looks like they pushed the cyclic forward.
The person in the right seat is the pilot, remember those helicopter guys sit in the wrong seat
keep them flying!
Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:33 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
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Last edited by glacier on Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:40 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
I got a couple thousand hours in Astars and I have no idea from watching that video what happened. I would say those winds are perfectly acceptable for landing that aircraft. I guess we'll have to wait for the accident report.
- Waterboy offline
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Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:31 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
Bdiazair wrote:wNosedragger wrote:670x wrote:I fly an Astar just like that for a living.
I'm betting the tail kicked up due to a tailwind and got past the pilots ability to do anything about it so then he tried a go around.
There is nothing you can do to put that tail down once it goes up. If you look at the design of the horizontal stabilizer you will see why. It is designed to push the tail down in forward flight. So a gust of wind from behind does just the opposite.
I watched that video about 10 times and thats the best I can come up with.
That or a passenger or someone else pushed that Cyclic hard forward thats the only other way to get that helicopter into that attitude.
At 17-18 second mark, watch the person in the right seat. It sure looks like they pushed the cyclic forward.
The person in the right seat is the pilot, remember those helicopter guys sit in the wrong seat
They sit on both sides in my world so they don't stay bent sideways in one direction from looking out the side window. It still looks like a cyclic movement, whether he's chasing it or forcing it.
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Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:20 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
It is my expert opinion that the guy running the camera is one lucky dude!! 
Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:08 pm
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
I didn't see any wind problems or pilot problems. He had good control, stable hover, nice set down. Into wind or downwind doesn't matter, you have to do all of them at different times. What wind there was was easily controllable.
Passenger interference on the controls. Collective if I had to guess - maybe the pax thought it was a parking brake.
Passenger interference on the controls. Collective if I had to guess - maybe the pax thought it was a parking brake.
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Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:14 am
Re: Video: Chopper Crash in Fiji 12/24
flattie45 wrote:It always cracks me up when people who know nothing 'bout nothin' weigh in as if they do.
I'll put myself firmly in the same camp, but I'm not pretending to know about rotorcraft. I'll listen to those who have the experience.
Thats the great thing about the internet! The armchair quarterbacks abound!
Guilty as charged.- Crzyivan13 offline
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